When You Realize You’ve Abandoned Yourself with Debbie Zita

Have you become a supporting character in your own life?

International TEDx speaker, bestselling author, and creator of the Six Selves model Debbie Zita joins Pam to explore how we lose ourselves inside relationships, responsibilities, expectations, and the roles we perform for others.

Together, they discuss recognizing self-abandonment, replacing the inner critic with an inner best friend, seeking wholeness instead of balance, and meeting every part of yourself with compassion. Debbie also leads listeners through a heart-centered practice designed to help us pause, reconnect, and begin coming home to ourselves.

Sometimes growth isn’t about becoming more. Sometimes it’s about remembering who you were before the world told you who to be.

Debbie Zita describes the moment she realized she had outsourced herself to relationships, responsibilities, and roles until she could no longer find herself in the movie of her own life.

In this episode, Pam and Debbie explore:

• What self-abandonment can look like
• Why success doesn’t always create a sense of identity
• Debbie’s Six Selves model of self-inquiry
• Moving from the inner critic to the inner best friend
• Why Debbie stopped seeking balance and began seeking wholeness
• Feeling and welcoming every part of yourself
• Breaking the behavioral loops that keep you stuck
• Mindfulness and heart-centered practices for returning to yourself

🎁 A GIFT FOR LISTENERS

Debbie is inviting listeners to attend one complimentary Monday Meditation and Prioritization session. The 30-minute experience includes a heart-coherence meditation followed by intentional prioritization for the day, week, or month.

Visit Debbie’s website or message her on Instagram to learn more and request your complimentary session.

CONNECT WITH DEBBIE ZITA

Website: https://debbiezita.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deb_zita

🎧 WATCH OR LISTEN

[ADD GENIUS LINK]

FOLLOW THE JOURNEY

https://tpkkconcepts.com/delay-the-binge-the-journey/

THE JOURNEY — WEEK 3: BUILDING MOMENTUM
One choice becomes another.

Content note: This episode includes discussion of trauma, grief, suicidal ideation, mental health, and medication as part of the guest’s personal story. Nothing shared in this episode should be considered medical or mental-health advice. Please consult a qualified professional regarding your individual circumstances.

Transcript

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Welcome And The Core Theme

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Delay the Bench Podcast. I'm your host, Pam Dwyer. And sometimes we spend years trying to become more, more successful, more confident, more accomplished. Only to realize that what we've really been searching for is ourselves. Today's guest believes that lasting transformation isn't about becoming someone new, it's about reconnecting with the person you were always meant to be. Joining me today from Melbourne, Australia, y'all, is Debbie Zita. Debbie is an international TEDx speaker, a best-selling author, podcast host of multiple podcasts I just found out, and creator of the Six Sells, model of self-inquiry. For more than 25 years, she's blended psychology, social work, business, leadership, and conscious-based practices to help women build lives and businesses that are aligned with who they truly are. She calls it playing bigger and playing beautiful. Debbie, I'm so glad we finally made these time zones work. Welcome to the Delay the Binge podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Thank you. Thank you so much, Pam. You're a pleasure. Oh my goodness. This is this is a joy for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Ah, me too. I'm so excited. Before we talk about all the work and the message and everything and we go in deep, I would love, love to begin here.

Joy And Finding A Soul Tribe

SPEAKER_01 1:34

What's bringing you the most joy in this season of your life?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Oh, that's a beautiful question, Pam. Okay, so something has shifted for me in this financial year. So I don't know if you if we have the same kind of systems here, but July kicks into a new financial year for us. So we're July, mid-July right now. And I don't know if it's my age, the cycle or chapter I'm in, or the fact that I've just run my first barley retreat last month. But something has something shifted within me. And I am calling in my soul tribe, which I've been praying, meditating about for years, and it's actually happening. I have my WhatsApp and and not quite yet Instagram, but that's okay. But my WhatsApp is buzzing from networking events and speaking opportunities and people that I'm just connecting with left, right, and center. And now it's, oh my goodness, okay, how do I, you know, manage this new wave of connections? Because it's just something that's quite new for me. But it's so joyful to feel received in the world and to feel like people understand the message and want to be around me and want to be involved. And so that's yeah, how joyful for me and how grateful I am for that.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

How wonderful. Because all the hard work, you're seeing fruit, you know? And and that's for a lot of most creatives, it's so exciting when it all starts to fall into place. Yes. Because it was meant to be. I went and listened to one of your very first episodes of your

Losing Identity Through Self Abandonment

SPEAKER_01 3:05

pop podcast.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

And and there was one sentence I really haven't stopped thinking about. Yeah. You said I realized I was moving away from my authenticity. And I think a lot of women are familiar with that, even if they can't quite explain it. Yes. So looking back, how did you know you had drifted away from yourself?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Well, it's a tricky one because there's a lot of trauma in my history. And so without going sort of too far into it, uh there was moments where I I just I literally had a loss of identity, and not in a healthy spiritual awakening type of way, but in just like a shock of so many people passing away, so many things happening that were not aligned with who I am. I'm a very kind, very generous person, and I assumed the world operated that way. And unfortunately, you know, as you age and move through life, it just doesn't. There's there's wolves in sheep's clothing, there's things that we can't explain. And I was very naive to that. Up until, you know, relatively recently on my journey in my 40s, I really went, WTF, actually hold up, hold up one second, please. You actually have spun this around. And then there was a moment or a few moments where I realized, actually, I'm okay. I'm okay because I'm kind, because I am honest, because I am loyal, because I am integrous, because I am generous. And when you are actually all of those things, even if you make silly decisions or you make mistakes, and I did, and we all do, I have God or source or universe backing me.

unknown 4:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

And so where I drifted from my authenticity was I actually self-abandoned Pam. I allowed other people, sometimes friendships with women, sometimes a partner, a lover, a boyfriend, whatever the title was at the time, to outsource me to them. And then I was looking around, going, Where where am I in in this movie of my life? It's the Debbie Zeta show. Where the heck is Debbie Zita? Oh, she's back there. She's the extra, she's the wife, she's the mother, she's the business owner, she's the coach, she's the hustler, she's the the traumatized woman, she's the lover, she's the vixen, she's the phoenix. Okay, whoa, hold up. Okay. I am none of those things, and I am all of those things. Who I am now is a remarkable woman, and what I say is I'm the strongest woman that I know because I am.

unknown 5:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Oh that is so powerful. So powerful and so beautiful. Which comes to one of your I saw another status says, play bigger and play beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Is this is this what

Playing Bigger And Playing Beautiful

SPEAKER_01 5:55

brought that on? All of those things happening and you realizing it and becoming aware.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yes. So I I know in this lifetime, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, bold claim that I'm about to make, and I'm I'm gonna claim it. There are multi-millions, if not billions, in in my chart, in my history, in my profile. That is what I'm here to really innovate, disrupt personal development, spirituality, and small business. And for me to claim that now is so wonderful. And along that journey, I've met people who are everything from they've lost their homes, they're literally homeless on the street. I would sit with people in LA and I would sit with them and say, firstly, can I sit beside you? Is that okay? And they would say yes. And I would say, I just want to find out, sister, how did you get to this point? What happened? What's going on? Right. So those interactions taught me. And then I've sat with people that have had multi-millions, billions of dollars, and I've seen everything from drugs and alcohol and and you know, behaviors that we might judge, which I don't judge because I believe you do what you need to at the time to feel good about yourself and to learn something. And that's fine. It's never been my journey. I'm a meditation, energetic, very sensitive soul to energy. So you put me in a room with people who are drinking alcohol, and I feel like I'm drinking even if I've had nothing to drink. So I can't take anything, but there's no judgment. Everyone's different, each to their own. I've met those people, and then I've in more recent years, which is more aligned with who I am, I've met people who operate from a place of deep, divine connection, uh, great service to humanity. They've understood their own energies, they don't take substances, and they're worth millions and billions and doing really good things on the planet. So playing bigger is let's reach your potential, be self-actualized, and also be self-realized because those are two different things. Realized meaning we are not the diamonds or the Gucci or the Ferrari or the Porsche or the Mercedes. Have all of those things if that's what you would like. Or no brands, but just lots of nice things because you're not designer. I don't, I don't mind. And also at the same time, love yourself, give to yourself, maybe give to charity. I'm not going to push the charity thing because I think some people get forced into I have to give to charity, I have to be that person. If your soul wants you to give, you'll give. If your soul wants you to receive more and give back to yourself and your family and your local community, you'll do that. Everyone's soul path is different. So playing bigger, be the best, biggest, most wonderful version of yourself and beautiful, be kind, be generous, be loving, be empathetic, be compassionate to others and especially women, to yourself.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

I love that. That's the whole reason of my very first podcast, The Plus One Theory, was all about kindness and it being a superpower and how it helps the giver and the receiver. And it's just, I think that we're losing

Kindness With Dignity Not Pity

SPEAKER_01 9:00

sight of how important and how big kindness is. And coming from my background, the childhood, we were very poor, very hungry all the time. And I wrote this uh article once, uh and it's called Help Hurts. And what that means coming from the receiver, a lot of times people do donate money or food or clothes, but they never stop to think once about actually, like you just shared with us, you sat down beside them and you said, What's going on here? Yeah. Because I sometimes dream about if someone had sat next to my mom who was a single mom of seven children, if someone had sat down next to her took the time to say, Okay, you obviously don't know how to handle money. Yes, I do. So let me show you how to do this instead of just throwing money or you know, food at us because we didn't have our dignity like that. I mean, people that are in that situation, we need our dignity so that we can rise above it and get out of that mess. But if we're constantly just made to feel shame and guilt, we're never gonna get out of that situation. So I love, I love what you just shared with us. It's so important.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

I thank you so much. For me, it it's this is not strategy, this is not something I set out to do. It's just I was traveling to LA after one of the very big traumas I experienced. I surrendered myself to God and I said, where do you want to place me? And I was placed to go to LA, intuitively placed when I say that. I was just my heart was calling me. I had some savings, I was okay in that way. And I went over to, I don't know if you've ever been, but to Paramahansa Yogananda's shrine in LA. So Paramahansa Yogananda was the yogi who bought yoga, the yoga movement. Yoga means union. So now I don't do the poses, I'm not a yoga instructor, just definitely. But I definitely am all for union, union of energy, union of self, union of humanity. And so I feel very connected to Primahansa Yogananda. I bought a hundred or so copies of his book, Autobiography of a Yogi, and I, from my own personal money, and I donate them around. I think I gave the last copy two days ago to someone who's now a part of my team. I just intuitively I'm guided. So I went to LA when I touched down. I said to my now partner who I met two weeks before that, I started crying and I said, I'm home. LA's home for me. And I knew where the shrine was. I said, John, we were driving like a rental car in LA, which is the opposite side of the road. So better that he was driving than me, because I he's better at driving than me. And I said, Go left, go right. I I knew from and I'm not good with maps. Anyone who knows me, I'm not great with maps, but my heart knew where the shrine was. I saw something, I knew that was the shrine. So that's how I came to be in LA. And what I saw was Beverly Hills. Again, no judgment. I love money. Money's great. But I saw these mansions and I saw these amazing properties and cars and things. And then also I saw this, the, the, the contrast, you know, this this the homelessness.

Money Consciousness And Self Worth

SPEAKER_00 12:10

And the thing is, there's something called which you you may or may not know about, or your listeners may or may not know, but the Tatselotto effect, the lottery effect, where you win or you come into a lot of money. But if your consciousness doesn't receive self-love or self-worth, it can't actually hold it or grow that. So it kind of actually repels that. Even if you're kind, even if you're smart, you can you can be very smart. There are very smart people who have been doctors, lawyers, or whatever you you want to call smart is in our society, that have, through adversity and choices and maybe karmic clearing, if you want to use that language, have found themselves in situations that are less than suitable, such as being without a home. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

It it's so true. And I often tell people, I mean, a lot of my clients have no sense of identity at all. They're doing all the things they should be doing, checking all the boxes. They're very successful and they're financially set. But inside, they feel empty and lost and they actually don't feel anything. They don't feel joy, happiness, or anything. And the first thing that I always suggest they do is help someone else.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Because if you're gonna find out who you really are, you can do that with small steps, small actions. But the first one, if you start helping others, I promise you're gonna start getting a sense of self.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yes, especially if you have access to the resources and you can see what I would call and what I've been taught in my spiritual journey is a sibling, because we're all siblings, spiritually speaking. So you can see a sibling who's in crisis or struggling. And I believe that we're mirrors to each other. So that that individual has has come across your path for a reason. If you have the resources in the form of money, and this is something that they need and, Pam, they want to receive. Because sometimes they don't want to receive it, which is why I sat down and said, What do you need? I could have given her a hundred dollars. She's like, I'm okay. I said, Do you want a coffee? She says, No, I've just eaten. I've just had something hot. Can I sit beside you? Can I sit beside you? Interesting, also, Pam, I want to share what she shared, whether this is accurate or not. But she actually shared that she consciously wanted to choose to have the experience of being without a home. It wasn't through necessarily adversity or bad choices as we would perceive or judge in those of us that are plugged into society, into the matrix. She wanted the experience of what it felt like to be liberated and free. Now, would I do that? Personally, no. Do do I think that there might be some other things going on there that that make that life less than desirable? As a, I guess, if you want to put me in a in a a system, you know, a a woman that's been to university and I've I've had homes and I've I've never been on the street. It's hard for me to understand it. But but she was speaking her truth. That was her truth.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah. Yeah. And and a lot of people I am finding, I am discovering more and more through this podcast, um, there are people of all financial status, you know, they could have a lot or they don't have much, or they don't have anything. And what I'm seeing is that if they resolve their issues that are causing them to be stuck, if they fix those things, they're afraid of it because they don't know who they are without it. You know, if I fix this thing that I am struggling with, who am I?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Can I share a story, Pam?

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yes.

Grief Lessons And Letting Go

SPEAKER_00 15:51

When I was 27 and pregnant, my beautiful mother was diagnosed with gallbladder cancer, and 21 days later, we buried her. Oh God. If we fast forward how many years was that? Close to 15 years later, my beautiful friend Nikki in her 40s left two children behind and died within a year of lung cancer. Now, my mother was not a consciously spiritual woman. She was very into the matrix of this world. That's just, that's just, that was just her journey. Beautiful woman, very kind, beautiful mother, great auntie, great friend, great wife. She she was a beautiful soul. But she didn't let herself open up to the consciousness of being something spiritual and something loving. She just she just chose something different. So when she died, we cut, we had to cut her engagement ring off her. I've still got it. It's downstairs. I wear it sometimes. I wear it broken even. I haven't, I haven't had the resources yet because I've put everything into my business and my company, but it's okay, it's changing. But I still have mum's diamond ring. We had to cut the diamond ring off her finger. What that taught me at 27 and pregnant, you can't take a diamond with you. No, right? Nikki, I met through my heart community practice. Nikki had surrendered herself. Horrible story to be in your 40s and leave behind two children and a very loving husband who adored her to, I can't even explain how much in love that this family was. And she said to me, Debbie, we have to meditate more, we have to pray more. I'm like, Nikki, we already meditate and pray like six hours a day. I've got to run a company, I've got to take care of Jonah. She's like, no, no, we've got one year left. I said, Well, maybe you have one year left, but I don't. She thought the world was crumbling around COVID time. Turns out, Pam, she had one year left. Nikki had one year left. I had more time. She had one year left. When she died, though, I wasn't strong enough to be by her bedside. I said goodbye a few months earlier when I watched her hair fall out and everything else. But I heard from my friends that Nikki died. I've got the goosebumps. Nikki died in the arms of love. Nikki surrendered everything. And she's not only is she in heaven, but she's she's completely, she is love. She is just in the ether. She is, she just is. The I am um Nikki is. So my mother held, no judgment to my mother, but my mother held, didn't surrender, didn't let go, and she'll move on to whatever her soul's journey is in reincarnation and everything else. I'm also a intuitive and psychic medium, so I have many conversations with my mum. Nikki, however, is long gone. She's just, she's, she's with God. So here's the contrast, right? It's not what you have, it's how much can you let it move through you? It's like water flow through you. Receive it, give it, enjoy the journey, and then my friends just let go.

unknown 18:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

I'm I'm amazed. You are just so confident and and positive and sure of your heart and your soul and everything. I just, I'm blown away by that, Debbie. I don't see that a lot. And I've interviewed hundreds of people.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

I'm receiving, I'm receiving. I have an army of light behind me that I I knew it, but I didn't fully believe in myself. But I've had people around me in recent weeks and months tell me, do you know who you are, Debbie Zita? Do you know there's an army of light behind you? And that being received back has given me the confidence to know I'm a leader in this space in what I do. And I'm about to change the planet a hundred percent. Because we need people like me in business and spirituality to make money, to understand money, to understand the heart. We are craving, the planet is craving for the teachings that I am bringing onto the planet. And I say that with no ego, and if ever there's an ego, God will show me and replace that with humility, believe me.

Light Recognition And Identity Beyond Roles

SPEAKER_00 19:45

But but this is what I'm here to do. This is my mission.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Oh my goodness. And I feel the same way. I've been told my whole life that I have a light. Wow. You know, like from all types of people, from early on. I remember in third grade. Let me tell you this. This'll this will mean a lot to you. And so when I was in third grade, a friend invited me to spend the night. And that's when I realized that not everyone lives like I do. Yes. I thought everyone, and and at that age, I thought everyone lived the same life that I had. Filth, dirty, no food, horrible, anger, blah. But I went to her house and it was completely different. I thought it was like Cinderella's castle. But when I put my little bag down, all these roaches scurried out of my bag. And they were screaming and stomping them. And that's when I thought, oh, roaches are bad. And I had a lot, that's the first time I ever really felt shame about my living situation. And so I for some reason I thought I had to leave. So I started gathering my things. But my friend's mother, her name's Mrs. Kelly. I I I still strive to be a parent like her. I don't even know what you're gonna say, but my heart's already receiving what's about to be Oh, she took my bag in my hand and took me to the laundry room, put the bag down, and knelt down and took my face in her hands like this, and she goes, Don't ever let anything on the outside dictate what you have on the inside. She goes, Pam, you have a light. You have such a bright light, sweetheart, and I just can't wait to see what you do with it. And that's the first time anyone ever validated or saw me or made me feel worthy. That was the first time. And so after that, it just seemed like more and more people, the more aware I became of this light, the more people noticed it, I think.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Do you know what's up, Pam? Sorry to cut you off, and thank you for sharing that beautiful story. Because the light in each of us is magnified and reflected back by the light in each other. So we're actually all moving channels of light. And the more that we reflect it here, it's out there, and then it comes back. And it's just this beautiful. dynamic process because ultimately ultimately behind everything behind the titles behind the soul's journey we are light I just love that and and I wish every soul on earth yes would know this and feel it but I think a mission for them to know so through the throughout through this conversation that every every being has that within them a hundred percent it's just how do we access that yes because I think a lot of like the playing bigger statement makes me think about a lot of people that that think they confuse it with becoming busier yeah right like adding more to their plate that's how you become bigger I think a lot of people believe that do you see that a lot too I do and I'm just I'm having a moment right now of what it means to actually be bigger and I think the definition for me not I don't think I know the definition for me of of playing bigger is actually how much light do you have within you when you're speaking when you're showing up when you smile is there a lightness that's that's the bigger piece and yes it can be the material things as well and I say that because if you rock up to a board meeting or a meeting with investors and you are wearing an Armani suit and you have this light around you you you'll probably more than likely have some more doors open for you unfortunately it's just how the system works than someone who comes from the street and says I haven't had a shower in three weeks can I come to your board meeting that can happen I know stories like that too but they're rare. They're rare it's a very special being that can come there without having showered for three weeks and get into that office meeting okay most people there is a social um constraint around how we appear and how we speak and everything else. So being able to have access to those rooms part of that is being able to have access to resources in the form of money. And then we get to play with the external resources in the material world with the resources of our internal self, which is our love and light that we carry and bring onto the planet.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Perfect combination. Perfect. And a lot of people that gain a lot of financial stability they forget what they've been through. They'll forget everything that they they went through to get to that place. Yes. Because they're so you know enthralled with the newness of everything that's available to them. Yes. I've heard people say it over and over we forgot. We forgot what it's like to be hungry. You know go oh go ahead please no I was going to say one thing that struck me about you is that I don't think your work is about business at all. I think it feels more like identity helping women well and people of all men and women remember who they really are. Would you say that's true?

SPEAKER_00 24:52

A hundred percent Pam and business just happens to be the avenue and in this chapter of my life that this is expressed through but I had the same thing when I was a social worker when I was working in retail when I was working as a stylist whether I'm delivering a keynote to business owners or to mums I I don't mind at all. I have no preference it just happens to be again at this chapter of my life it's in business. The form can change no problem.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Yes definitely and I just love that so much because you know a lot of uh women are told at a very young age what their place is you know and what the expectations of are and they work their whole lives to meet those expectations but they're miserable inside so it helps to be around someone that knows it has a light that can offer them you know help and guidance with well not just their spirituality but their whole self of being who they were always meant to be. Not even anyone knew I think I really believe that we're all born with a certain path and a certain job. And whatever that is, if we d can't find it, we just need guidance. We need a light to follow.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

I love what you're sharing and I'm reminded of I I went to a funeral I think it was a month ago it was my husband's side and and it was an aunt and I'm always mindful when I'm sharing stories like this because I'm very protective of family and friends and not naming names and if anyone happens to hear from the family that I'm sharing this I I mean no disrespect. However I was hearing these stories of this beautiful woman who I didn't know very well. I met her a few times and she was very unwell and there was relief when she transitioned. But there were these stories around you know she gave to her family she gave to her her community and I never saw her you know give anything to herself but we're so grateful that she gave to all of us something along those lines and I I was driving back with my husband and I said to him I I understand what what they were saying and I know this is sort of what we're taught to share at funerals and I understand that that was seen as a glowing review of this woman's life. But this is interesting and some people will think I'm mad and that's fine. But the spirit of the woman was actually hanging in the car with us that whole morning on the way to the funeral and the sense I got from her was she was not that happy. And then I was confused going now I know I have a gift. I know I'm connecting with this spirit I know it's her I'm not wrong here. But what I'm hearing in the funeral is this different story. So I'm missing something what's going on and then I tuned in with myself and what I realized was both pieces of information were accurate. She was a great mum a great wife a great community leader. She was happy in that way as a spirit though when that girl was that girl that woman was like hey girlfriend chat with me really she wasn't happy and I'll tell you why Pam she didn't get to live from herself she was living from the script that the family wanted her to live from from what she thought she had to be in this world. Now you can still be the mother and the wife and the community leader and give to charity I'm not saying don't do that. But if you choose my love to do that do that because your soul is requesting that of you not because your mother father sister brother husband daughter son is telling you to do so.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

That's or they need you to do it because that's ingrained in us as to especially with our children even as adults we want to cater to whatever it is they need to make sure they're comfortable and happy and well and but a lot of times I had to finally start asking myself because I didn't know there was a time I didn't know what my favorite color was or my favorite food. Now I could tell you what my kids' favorite colors were and their food and my husband's but I had no clue what Pam Pam's favorite color or food was. So then I started asking myself if no one here was in my life what would I go eat?

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Yeah I know I know exactly what you're talking about. I think most mothers can relate to that feeling.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Yeah it's strong it's a tough one and then when the kids are gone and no none of those people are in your life for whatever reason then you're left in the dark.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

And that's the identity piece that we're talking about before it's like who am I who am I when all of this goes when I am not the mother I'm not the businesswoman I'm not

The Six Selves Origin Story

SPEAKER_00 29:20

any of those things. Who who am I just with myself? Can I sit with myself? Can I be my thoughts? Can I just sit and be in nature? Can I be in a shopping center and be whatever I need to be in that environment to can I just be me and who am I really? And this is why we haven't spoken about but this is why I created and developed well this was birthed through me the six selves.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yes that's my next question I was going to take us there. Yes your work centers around the six selves and and I don't want you to give the whole framework away but what inspired you to create it?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

My first client came to me about 10 years ago. So she was lost in every life area she herself lost her mother when she was pregnant her grandmother soon after her grandmother was a war survivor as well this woman went through divorce and separation and then was parenting co-parenting her neurodivergent child who will be 18 this year. She went on to have a very unfortunate abusive relationship. He died three friends died of cancer together we worked to create her own framework write and deliver her TEDx talk her Amazon bestseller she's flown to Boston to be on stages with people like Victor Chan who's the co-founder of the Dalai Lama Center and Harvard Professors she's reached an incredible amount of revenue in her business and she's she feels like she's just getting started and Pam there's a secret because that woman is me. Wow now I didn't set out to start a company to make money I set out to save Debbie and that was my TEDx was there was a day there was a whole decade there of suicidal ideation if I'm honest and there was a day where it was about to be worse than that. Not because I'm ungrateful for my life not because I wanted to hurt anybody because I was in deep anguish and pain at my journey. I couldn't understand how I could keep giving and be of service to so many people and then I realized I wasn't being of service to myself the vessel that carries me the voice that speaks the body that digests and processes food and information I I wasn't honoring this. And that's why I call myself the business body guy because the business is yes an expression but your body your sales your marketing your leadership your mindset your heart your soul it's all part of why we're here and business can be anything it's a community it's your family it is your coaching business your legal practice your your multi-million billion dollar whatever it is it's all of those things. So how I came through that how did I actually come to be from that woman that I'm sharing about to this one here it was that spiritual emotional legacy valued ecological sexual I know who I am spiritually I'm everything I'm nothing my emotions I I do my best I'm still learning and growing I'm never perfect but I try not to respond try not to react I respond instead my legacy this is my legacy I'm here to be of upliftment to the planet in this very beautiful practical way. I value myself I've generated close to three quarters of a million dollars I can't bring in those sales if I don't value myself my ecology I have to be around people like you Pam who love me see me value me share about me talk about me connect me otherwise people ignore me have no idea think I'm mad and they used to goodbye I love you you have no place in my life anymore sexual creative self my podcasts my books my my programs everything has to be created from something so I walked myself through that process and this is what I walk through every single client and I have 10 offers and many programs that I run. Everything is waived through this framework.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Gosh I love that and it's almost simple if you think about if you step back and look at it you're like okay this is I actually hired a coach a little while ago for six weeks. Yes because I couldn't figure out I was doing all this work and there was nothing was monetized. It was just all for my heart. Yes but I knew that I had to feed it somehow and so uh my husband says let's get you a coach and so she was incredible she pointed out she goes I don't think that you want to move past this and I thought he said yes yes I do I have to if I'm gonna continue to do it and she said um I don't see that in in your work because you're pouring everything into everything that doesn't produce exactly and I was just so blown away because here I am a coat you know advising people but that it's what they say about the shoemaker right the shoemaker has the worst looking shoes. Or the the hairdresser the worst hair or the the the fencers painting has the worst yeah exactly we're all evolving right and and that sounds like what what you're doing and the six steps will if help you evolve into who you're supposed to be who you're meant to be. A hundred percent yeah I love that so much thank you. You know I have a story about it's called the hidden mountain it's been told in many other ways but it's all about climbing the mountain life and you get to the summit and you're like oh is this it's what I've been working for. But then you look to the right and there's another mountain that was hidden by the mountain you were climbing.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

And so we're in this constant state of evolving and finding the next mountain that we're meant to climb.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

So but I'm a firm believer in that I am too and I I'm also I often feel like I'm I'm suspended on the mountain I'm I'm sort of I'm climbing up it because I always feel like there's an there's another one. And I often will say you know God what am I supposed to do here? Like I just want to get to the mountaintop and then I I had this epiphany of hang back and enjoy it. I mean it's it's the old you know adage of you know enjoy the journey it's not about the destination but it's the truth because then ultimately you know we leave this body behind at some point. There's a moment in time we take our last breath and there are only so um you know few amounts of mountaintops that we're going to to have whether that's one or whether it's a hundred in your life if you happen to have the different milestones. But what about all those different that one and that next one and that next climb and that next climb that's that's the real juice yes or connection to me. Let's let's get let's be happy in all of those ones and I'm saying this for myself too because believe me I can complain and be be um impatient and want things to happen now and just want to land let's land. Let's land I might be doing this for a long time so I may as well enjoy it Pam.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Enjoy the journey. Yeah

The Pause Before Reaction Tools

SPEAKER_01 35:55

one thing we talk about often on this podcast and I'm so excited to talk to you about this because I really want your take on it is the pause before the reaction. And you speak about noticing your own triggers. Yes and choosing compassion instead so what have you learned about that tiny space between what happens and how we respond that moment.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Great question. So is the question about me personally and how I respond in like internally yeah I would love to hear that and then we can hear how you help others that would be great. It's actually one and the same thing because if we look at psychology there's the the inner critic or what and what I call the best friend. So when you're connected to the inner critic that's where you go into uh anxiety overwhelm suicidal ideation and worse if we if we can't get a handle on things. When we move into the inner best friend we're going into pause, respond, breathe, love yourself. Right? If you had a best friend and I I I also want to preface this with a good and a great best friend because we've all had those friends where we think well that's my best friend but she's the one to tell you you've put on some weight or your knees look funny or that doesn't quite suit you. Well that's not the kind of best friend that I'm talking about. I'm talking about the best friend that is like I love you girl like you look a bit tired today. Like let's give you what a cup of tea are you okay? What outfit are you wearing tonight? You look sexy, you look hot, I love you, go for it. You've got a meeting I am praying for you. I love you let's rise together that's the kind of best friend that I'm talking about. So when you can be that for yourself that is when you have that moment of pause to go oh my goodness I've done something wrong or something's gone a bit pear-shaped here. Oh my God I effed up I did this I wait wait no no I didn't I just I'm human and I said something and it landed some certain way and I don't even know and maybe that's not even what they're thinking even if I'm intuitive and I think I know I don't really know. Breathe it's fine I love myself I love you I love you I love you and then I do the holoponapono prayer do you know about the holoponapono prayer the Hawaiian No I've heard of it but I don't I don't know it. So there was a doctor who was utilizing this prayer I I don't remember the year. This is a long while ago now but it it worked where he would connect in with psychiatric patients in Hawaii and he would say four statements I love you I'm sorry please forgive me and thank you. That is the only therapy that he did. He didn't even go into the clinic he would just read the patient's files and say these four statements every single one of those patients was healed through those four statements. The whole Pono Pono prayer is now widely used by coaches, mentors, therapists, clinicians because it works. I was reminded of it over a decade ago and it wasn't until about a week ago that another dear friend reminded me again that I've really dropped into what it actually means. I was saying it as lip service I love you I'm sorry this last week or so I've really been going no I really love you. Pam, I love you. I'm sorry please forgive me and thank you. Debbie to myself because everything that you are showing me exists within myself. There's a reason why this interaction has come about and now Pam our interaction's very pleasant but you and I both know we have interactions clients don't show up people don't pay you an ex-boyfriend bumps into you with his beautiful wife who looks like a Hollywood movie star. You know all these things that happen why are these things happening to me I don't know but I'm gonna clean I'm gonna clean with I love you I'm sorry please forgive me and thank you. So it heals in you it heals in me and it also heals every other person on the planet who is going through that same or similar challenge.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

So that is what I do pause I love you girl I love you I love you and then I say those four statements I love that so much because everyone always asks me okay I'm gonna pause Pam before I before I do this unhealthy pattern or behavior this thing and I just don't know what to do. What do I pause with?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Yes pause with now I can now you have a tool yeah now I have a tool an additional tool that would be great. You have many tools already you're a coach yourself so you would have a a whole library of resources that you're using as as well.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

But I love that for yourself because I I had to learn how to forgive myself because I had so much shame and guilt once I learned how to forgive and someone challenged me they said you know you've really forgiven someone when you wish good things to happen to them or for them.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

That's how you know you've truly forgiven someone I thought wow that called me out.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yeah yeah because I'll I'll be honest I don't always have that I I sometimes have those darker thoughts if I'm being I'm very transparent and I I'm a leader, I'm a teacher, but I'm human and I have my shadow parts too and that's yeah that can be challenging.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Well and quite frankly your message is just in time because I'm seeing more and more our society, our world they're loving to hate right now.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Hate is taking over and that's not how we are designed I mean there's a reason it feels

Fierce Love And Social Change

SPEAKER_01 41:05

good when we do good and there's a reason we feel bad or guilty when we do not it's good.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

It's tricky because you know what there's also a a nuance and a layer and a piece here which is I love you and and I love to all love and light to all beings, yes. But don't get me wrong Pam I'm I'm fierce and I teach my clients to be fierce and powerful because there is also there is hate on the planet and there are bad things that happen even if everything happens for a reason and everything's part of the grand plan. Yes, yes, okay. And also I have a child to feed and you have a family and you they have a family and they need to go to school and feel safe and you need to go to work and we have a society that we live in and in my humble opinion the only way that we can actually really bring love and light to the planet is through social change. Now I'm all about honoring the silos religion industry even classes if you want to although that is an old system but what I'm more about is also dissolving those silos so we can come together as a collective humanity and go, my brothers, my sisters, WTF, what is going on and how do we change this together? And we do that through fierce. We have to be fierce. Now I am not someone that you'll you'll never see me see me advocating or going to a rally or something like that at the moment. It's just it's not for my soul but I'm around a lot of people where I say if you feel to do that if it's your role to be an activist on Instagram or in the city that you're living in please go and do that. That is what you're supposed to be doing. Speak it out say no say hell no say heck no this is not happening. This is what I am saying to do instead who do I need to speak to what do we need to do to make change happen we cannot be passive on the planet love and light and passivity is not where it's at in 2026.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

No no no I agree wholeheartedly I mean you even said on your TEDx talk I remember you said I stopped seeking balance and I started seeking wholeness.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Yes yes right and and balance and boundaries are very difficult for many most people especially women because we're taught usually to live in a hierarchy that is often I'm like dare I say this or not but it there's the patriarchal system of this is how things should be done. This is how you're taught to be be a generous woman. Now I I'm not I'm not going into man hating or anything like that. I I truly believe love and light for every being and I am the mother to a son. So I want to see that our our sons and our nephews and our brothers are loved and feel whole and feel seen as well. And I've got a lot of friends and colleagues that run men's circles and allow the guys to swear and and be primal and do what men need to do. It's how they're wired To be. Do all of that there in that safe, controlled environment, so that you don't do it in our society, so that we as women can go out on the train or in Uber and go, I feel safe. Because I'll tell you, a lot of us don't feel safe for very good reason. One in four, one in five women go through trauma from childhood through to adulthood. That is unacceptable, brothers and sisters, and it needs to change right now. And it changes by you speaking up and saying, that is not okay. Don't speak about that woman that way. Don't talk about your sister, your wife that way. Stop it. There's consequences if you keep doing that. I know I may have opened a can of worms, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

No, no, no, no. I saw this video once of this man who was so wise about raising their sons to become the men the world needs.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

And he said, There's only one thing you need to remember when a boy, when they're born, when a baby's born and it's a boy, they immediately have two dogs, two puppies, and that is anger and lust. And so if you raise these boys to learn how to hold their dogs in and control them, then they'll be the greatest man on the earth. But if you don't teach them how to rein those two dogs in, because that's what that's what they are.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

They are. And I I'm gonna say something slightly controversial here, which is having worked with thousands of women across the planet, women have those two dogs too. They're just not socially I think we have more than two dogs. We have many, many. But right, it's okay for the guys to be angry and lustful and everything else. But you talk about a woman who is horny or is angry, hush, hush now. Hush, hush, she'll never get married. She'll not why not? That's part of what's in her as well. It's just that perhaps we know how to circumnavigate or utilize the energy in a different way. And also, and some women don't don't know how. They've also made choices that are less than favorable. We're all learning. So I don't, yeah, yeah, I see it in a different way, but I know it's a primal uh operating system.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

It is. It just made me think the same thing that you're saying, that we all have these things, these pups that we're born with. Yeah, that we need to control. Yeah. But a lot of times trying to control something that is that we're born with is what is causing the brokenness. We're trying to be something else that we're not.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

I don't know that we need to control it, Pam. I think what we're perhaps invited to do is to play with that energy. You know, it's it's like if and what I mean by play with that is allow yourself to feel whether that's lust, whether that's anger, whether that's joy, because some people also can't feel joy either, right? Because they're

Meeting Your Anger And Desire

SPEAKER_00 46:45

a performer and it's blocked and there's a shield there. What if we actually allowed ourselves to feel pleasure, to feel anger, to feel joyful through our own bodies, which a lot of people don't know how to do because they're so disconnected from their bodies. And then if we can actually do that, that is that is the step, I believe, before we can have the conversations around social change. Because if you yourself aren't living by that, you can't lead other people to do that either.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

No. And I wrote down right here when I was watching your video, you said I stopped trying to fix myself and began to meet myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

I met my lustful parts. I have lust, I have anger, I have rage. Believe me. Look at this. I'm a wild woman, but I'm also loving and compassionate and empathetic and giving and generous and all those things and sweet and soft. And I'm all of those things, and so are you, Pam, and so are you, whoever, and everyone else watching and listening. We all have those parts. Why are we hiding from them? Like, what's the secret? Like, we're all human, right? It is what it is. That's what I think it is.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

It's one of my favorite things.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Welcome them in. Let's all have a party here and then go, okay, and now what? Let's dance, let's let's be happy, and let's change some things on the planet while we're here. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Listening to you, I keep thinking about my mantra, which is it's my book. That's the mantra of the book, the lesson. It is your past doesn't define you. Yes, it prepares you. Yes. And I if you've had a traumatic past or whatever's happened to you that is you consider horrible, use that for fuel, for energy to move yourself forward and do what you were meant to do. Use it like fuel your past.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

To but a lot of people have trouble with that. Their past keeps them in shame and guilt and fear.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

A lot of them have been stuck in a loop.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

That's the behavioral pattern or the loop that they get stuck in, and then we keep repeating that until we've let go of that loop and we can create something different.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Yes. And you're not asking women, we're not asking women to become someone different, but we're inviting them to come home to themselves. That's I just love your whole message. I'm gonna listen to all of your podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

It's I hope this all connects to you and I'm reading it properly, but I know my listeners are getting so much out of this because you're just validifying everything that we try

Invitations Monday Meditation And New York

SPEAKER_01 49:20

to accomplish for people that are listening.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Thank you. It's my privilege. It's such a privilege to be breathing and in this body and and and no medication. I came off all antidepressants and medications from numbing everything I'd been through. And I allow myself to feel, and I went back into therapy. And I just I want to invite women who are going through and and the guys too, who are going through that crossroads, a divorce, you've lost your job, you've lost your business, there's a there's a health scare. All of these things, they're actually invitations or facilities for you to turn to a deeper place in your heart and in your soul. And Pam, I also want to offer, I I run uh a session that I've been running for almost six years straight. It runs on a um nine o'clock Melbourne, Australia time, nine till nine thirty. It's called Monday Meditation and Prioritization. It's 15 minutes of heart coherence meditation based on a theme of one of the selves each week, each month, and then 15 minutes of prioritization. So, what are your aims and your goals for the day, for the week, for the month? And there's a reason it's been running for nearly six years every single week, and it's reached women in seven countries. So I would love to gift an invitation. I'm also happy to welcome the guys in too, but I just have to be mindful that the the women in the group feel very, very safe. So I will have to just chat and make sure it's the right fit for anyone. But Monday meditation, please can I gift you that for anyone who's listening? One session uh on me as a gift. I'm also looking at running it at 12 o'clock because I've had interest from people who can't make the nine o'clock. It is tricky with the time zone in the States. I know it is, but if you're on my list, you will also get the recording to watch in your own time. Also, Pam, I would love to gift you 30 minutes with me uh because I feel to do so. And I've got a another podcast coming out, which is called the Breakthrough Room, and I would love to have you on as a guest.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Uh I would love that. That would be incredible. And thank you. That is so kind. That is very kind of you, and I will take it because I am like, I'll glean any information, anything I can to try and be stronger and better to help more people. That's all I want to do, you know, is just get this message out of kindness and love and acceptance.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Can I ask you, pal, I've also I've had a when I say I've had a download, I know that you know what I mean when I say I've had a download. I had a download that I'll be running a summit style event in New York, Manhattan. Oh. I have been to New York a number of times. I do love New York. I obviously also love LA. For some reason, I feel guided by Spirit to run something in New York, Manhattan. And I feel guided to share with you and your audience. It's actually been quite private. I've shared with a couple of colleagues, but I'm asked to share with you if there's any expressions of interest for people, um, please reach out to me. Instagram is the best place. It's deb underscore zeta with an I, D-E-B underscore Z I T A. Follow me, send me a message. There's no pressure. I always curate spaces with the right aligned souls. And somehow it always works. The right people are in the room. So if that's calling to anyone, um, please we do magic when we're together. So just yeah, reach out.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

It's a village. It takes a village. It really does. No matter where in the world you are. A hundred percent. It really does. And everyone, I will have all of that in the show notes. Please know this. But if you are wanting immediate, you know, just I'll give you the information, you know, through my next newsletter. So y'all better sign up and be on the newsletter.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

It's happening. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Yeah. If if someone,

Where To Begin Mindfulness And Heart

SPEAKER_01 53:10

this is my last question for you, and it's a it's a good one. I think everyone would appreciate it. If someone listening has no idea what coming home to themselves even feels like anymore, where would you encourage them to begin?

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Oh, it's such a good question. Uh, I think I'm gonna move to well, just two things. One is mindfulness, because when we're mindful, we're aware of our surroundings and also aware of ourselves. And that might not be comfortable, but that's okay. Sometimes when you haven't been home to yourself, it's almost like you go into a think of it like a real home where you walk into this like old dusty, there's cobwebs, there's boxes, and you're like, I don't want to, I don't want to go in there. I'm gonna close the door. Please go inside. Go inside, sit down, clear up the cobwebs, hire a cleaner if you need to, like make it easy, you know, make a cup of tea, just sit down in that space. Let the space commune with you and share with you what she or he needs. Let the space heal you. Cry, scream, dance, feel. So mindfulness is that piece. And alongside that, what one of the pieces that saved me was the heart practice. And this is why I run the meditation community for so many years, which is, I guess, part of my business, but also in some ways it's separate from it too. Because when I touch my heart, and we can we can do this now, it could be a nice place to end on. If we feel our feet on the ground and take a gentle deep breath, breathing in through the nose, feeling the stomach expand as you do so. Slight pause as you exhale out through the mouth, just letting everything go. Touching your heart center, which is right at the center of the chest, as we smile sweetly, freely, more completely, more continuously to our beautiful hearts until there is only peace, love, and joy, following any feelings of lightness and expansion, smiling sweetly and freely to all parts of you, to all parts of me, to every member of your family and community, smiling sweetly freely to everyone in your city, your state, your country, including you, including all parts of you, and finally smiling sweetly and freely to every being everywhere in all of existence so that every being can feel peace, every being can feel love, every being can feel joy, including you, including all parts of you, feeling your feet on the ground, taking a gentle deep breath, letting it go, including the practice, wriggling your fingers, wriggling your toes, opening your beautiful eyes, take a moment to calibrate because that's 5D consciousness, love and light, living, compassionate heart space. This is this is what we've all been looking for in religion and spirituality and the books. This is this is the it. It's here.

Closing Reflections And Disclaimer

SPEAKER_01 56:36

Thank you, Debbie. This is the moment, everyone. I hope all of you had your hands on your heart and just just took a moment to listen to Debbie and follow her instructions and just feel just be. So one thing I will carry with me from today's conversation, I always share this, Debbie, with my listeners, is that this is a reminder that growth isn't always about becoming more. Sometimes it's about remembering who we've been all along. And if any of this helped you see yourself a little differently today, I would love for you to spend a little time with this question. Who am I becoming? Not because someone else expects it, uh because it's it's who it's who you were always meant to be. And remember, you don't have to fix everything today. You don't have to start over every time you stumble. Give yourself a little grace and pick up right where you left off. Don't start over. And keep building on the momentum you've already created. Because who you're becoming isn't found by starting over. It's revealed every time you choose to keep going right where you are. Until next time, I'll see you all next week. Thanks again, Debbie, so much.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Thank you. My absolute privilege. Thank you, Pam. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Hey, it's me, Pam. And before we go, just a quick reminder. Everything we share here is meant to encourage, educate, and get you thinking. But it's not a substitute for professional mental health, medical, legal, financial, or any other licensed advice. I'm simply someone who's walking through life, learning right alongside you. And I'm grateful we get to learn together. Always seek the guidance of a qualified professional for your unique situation. Thanks for spending this time with us. Until next time, remember sometimes the biggest change begins with one small pause. I'll see you on the next episode of Delay the Binge.