Choosing Intimacy Over Compromise with Dr. Alexandra Stockwell

You can be successful, productive and deeply committed to the people you love, and still lose touch with yourself.

Dr. Alexandra Stockwell, widely known as The Intimacy Doctor, joins Pam for a conversation about the small choices that create genuine connection with ourselves and with the people we love.

Alexandra describes recognizing change not through burnout or crisis, but at the level of a "whisper." Nothing was obviously wrong with her life, yet she knew continuing along the same trajectory for decades wasn't what she wanted.

That raises one of the most important questions in this Week 2: CHOOSING conversation:

What do you want?

Pam and Alexandra explore why that question can be surprisingly difficult for high-achieving women who have become experts at knowing what everyone else needs.

They also unpack Alexandra's provocative perspective on compromise: withholding what's true for you may make a moment easier, but over time it can create disconnection. The alternative isn't demanding your way. It's learning to know yourself and communicate your truth with kindness, clarity and connection.

You'll hear about:

• Listening to the whispers before they become a crisis
• Reconnecting with your own wants and desires
• Why compromise can sometimes create disconnection
• Expressing yourself without disregarding your partner
• Creating everyday moments of pleasure and presence
• Why intimacy is a learnable skill
• Journaling and other small practices for reconnecting with yourself

Alexandra is a physician, relationship coach, bestselling author, host of the Intimate Marriage Podcast, and creator of programs and tools designed to help couples build deeper intimacy.

CONNECT WITH DR. ALEXANDRA STOCKWELL

🌐 Website:
https://www.alexandrastockwell.com/

🎙️ The Intimate Marriage Podcast:
https://www.alexandrastockwell.com/podcast

📸 Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/intimacydoctor/

💙 Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/Intimacydoctor/

▶️ YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@intimacydoctor

🎵 TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@intimacydoctor

💼 LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrastockwell/

Pause. Choose. Build momentum. Finish stronger.

Transcript

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Success Does Not Guarantee Connection

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Delay the Bench Podcast. I'm your host, Pam Dwyer. If you're new here, this podcast isn't just about the benches we can see. It's about the hidden patterns we run to when life gets hard. People pleasing, overworking, perfectionism, staying busy, shutting down, the automatic behaviors that quietly pull us away from the life and the relationships we truly want. Today's guest understands something I believe every high achiever eventually discovers. Success doesn't automatically create connection. Real intimacy is something we intentionally build. Joining me today is Dr. Alexandra Stockwell, widely known as the Intimacy Doctor. She is a physician, a relationship coach, best-selling author of Uncompromising Intimacy, creator of the Aligned and Hot Marriage Program, and the Intimate Connection app. And she's also a fellow podcaster host of the Intimate Marriage Podcast, ranked among the top 1%, y'all, of podcasts worldwide. For more than 20 years, she's helped high-achieving couples create relationships filled with genuine emotional connection, lasting passion, and the kind of partnership that feels just as successful as the rest of our lives. Her work has been featured by the New York Times, USA Today, Rolling Stone, Business Insider, Cosmopolitan, and many others. Alexandra, welcome to the Delay the Venge podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Thank you. I'm so glad to be here and what a warm, comprehensive introduction.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Thank you. I am so happy you're here too. I

A Childhood Divorce And Identity

SPEAKER_01 2:01

always like to begin before the accomplishments, before the books, the podcast, and becoming the intimacy doctor. Who was Alexandra and what experiences ultimately led you to this work?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Well, it's interesting to think how far back to go. I guess I would go to when I was nine and my parents got divorced. And I it wasn't um a horrific experience at the time. My parents actually, I think once they decided to get divorced, things were pretty peaceful. I knew things were very complicated, and then I don't know. And I don't think I really appreciated how influential this was until um actually when I was an intern, we had a cultural sensitivity training that all of the interns went through as part of our medical training. And in the process of doing that, we went through an exercise where each person needed to talk about who their people were. And I remember there was actually the person who took us through this was a doctor with Polish roots, and one of my good friends, uh, her father was Peruvian, and so all of the cultural things that came with that, and while I certainly am a New York Jew and was raised in a secular Jewish home, in fact, when I went through the interview questions, I was just astonished to find that actually my people are children of divorce. That that is where I feel that instant understanding, the way somebody else might re oh, you have creme brulee for dessert, you must come from, you know, wherever, wherever. And that what what I'm trying to say is that I really don't know myself apart from that influence. And it has been a kind of um web that has influenced my own relationships and ultimately my my work.

unknown 4:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Wow. I really appreciate that you know this, that you became aware of this, because for the longest time I had no clue who I was. I was just performing, doing what everyone else expected of me. But

Hearing Change At A Whisper

SPEAKER_01 5:03

now, one thing that really stayed with me while I was preparing for today was that you described a season of your life by saying it wasn't burnout you were feeling. It was something happening at the level of a whisper.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

And I love that description so much because so many people think change only happens after a crisis or divorce or whatever, but you recognize something before it became a crisis. Can you tell me what you meant by that statement?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, so actually the particular circumstances that I think you're referring to are um, well, let me say that my family in the generation above my parents was long-lived. I knew three of my great-grandparents well, all of my grandparents, my great-grandmother lived to 104, and I knew her for 25 years. Um I just was used to I didn't I didn't have a big family in terms of lots of siblings or first cousins or anything like that, but I did have my ancestors in my life a long time. Yeah. And it was really kind of shocking when my father died in 2000 and my mother died in 2002. And actually by the time I was 35, I became the oldest person in my family. And I mean, each death was a big loss for me. Yeah. But but even apart from that, I just felt unmoored without the generations ahead as a form of support and inspiration and complication. There was just a way in which the the future had an element of free fall for me when I didn't have kind of the human relationships that I had always counted on. And I think that has a way of not staying compartmentalized. So I think there's a way in which I looked at the rest of my life with a kind of objectivity and curiosity. I don't mean this in a very stressful way, but there was a way in which I just I just had the experience that I couldn't take certain things for granted that I had always just taken for granted. While I definitely chose to become a physician. I definitely loved practicing medicine. And in my mid-30s, I had two children. I have four, but I had two at the time, and I felt really good about my work-life balance, and just there wasn't any problem in my life. But I started thinking that I didn't see continuing in the trajectory I was on for another three or four, possibly five decades as a physician. And I think because the future had changed for me in my personal life so much, it kind of freed up the possibility of this question. And so that's what I experienced at the level of a whisper. In other words, there was nothing external that I didn't have. I mean, burnout is so common among physicians and high-achieving women altogether, but there's a context for it: long work hours, moral injury, lack of being appreciated. I mean, you've done episodes like there's a whole syndrome of burnout, which is very real. And I wasn't experiencing any of those symptoms. I just knew that that probably would be in the future if I kept going in the direction I was going. And what I heard at a whisper, in a way, it was having the courage to have achieved my dreams, which I worked hard at. Like that's a very important part of this. To be at a point where you're practicing medicine, that is years and hours of very focused effort to achieve my goals. And I think we tend to think when we achieve our goals, then we should enjoy them. But I thought, well, I'm enjoying them now, but I just don't think that will continue to be true. And I want to say that this comes up with clients of mine as well. I I have a client right now who had a lot of trauma and stress and um financial insecurity in her childhood, and she was just so motivated to never be in that situation again. And she is brilliant and smart and beautiful and an amazing friend and just an incredible attorney. And here she is in her early forties, having achieved what she was singularly focused on achieving. But now what? She needs a different driver, and it's easier to plan a new kitchen renovation than to find the internal permission to realize, okay, I achieved that, I am here, but this isn't what I want for the rest of my life.

The Hidden Mountain After Achievement

SPEAKER_01 11:21

I can relate to that so well. I mean, I am a very high achiever, very driven, because in pursuit of not repeating what my childhood was. So I can relate to that, but it also reminds me of this story that I've written about, and it's called The Hidden Mountain. And it's all about the mountain being life, and we're climbing and fighting and scratching our way to get to the summit. And then we get there, right? And it's so disappointing. It's like, oh, is this it?

unknown 11:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

I don't feel anything about, I don't feel joy, I don't feel sadness. I'm just numb. I don't feel anything. But if you look to the right, there was another mountain to climb that was hidden by the mountain you were on. So we always have another mountain to pursue. But what is that? See, that's where people get lost because during the journey, during the climb, they weren't focused on themselves at all. They're focused on achieving the goals and the expectations and just taking care of everyone else. And they don't look in to see who they are. And so when they get to the summit, the first summit, they're just like, I have no clue who I am. All I know is it doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I really love that image. It's beautiful. I know that for my clients, that second mountain often, if not, well, it always is, it's just there may be additional mountains too, but it's the mountain of intimacy, of quality of connection, of expressing desires and learning to receive and give and communicate clearly. Like it's it's the the hidden mountain of marriage. Would you describe what the mountain is that you generally are the shirpa for?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Um, you mean the mountain that was hidden?

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

For me personally, the mountain that was hidden is Pam the author, the writer. I studied graphic design. I'm just in a little cubicle creating websites, hidden, safe, and doing very well, and I was very good at it and successful and made enough money to make sure my children grew up with clothes and food, unlike myself. And I was so focused on that that I didn't realize I was quite miserable actually, and taking it out on my husband, my second marriage, and just snapping at my kids. Because if we don't listen to those whispers, because there were lots of whispers, it does become what I call quiet depletion. Quiet depletion affects over 70% of women, and men too, but I don't know the percentage there, but I do know a lot of women are just checking the boxes, doing what they're supposed to do, what's expected, but they're not living the what they really truly are, who they've forgotten who they've always been. But that second mountain for me was writing.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

And I was not trained as a writer. Now I'm a storyteller, right? And I come from East Texas, and that's what we do. We tell you stories, big fish stories, all kinds of stories, and I'm a very good storyteller, but I had to learn on that second mountain how to write in a way that people enjoyed reading. And it it was it was difficult, it's hard, but I did, and now I just I can't do it enough. I that's why I want to work, so I can feed my need to write. I just want to write, right, write. It's a calling, it's it's a gift, and feel content with it. I've never felt content with anything. I've always wanted to keep going, keep doing better, making sure everyone is going to stay around and need me. And it's all the whispers are from your childhood, from where you've carried old behaviors and and patterns into your adulthood over and over and over, and you just ignore it. But it's whispering to you. You are losing yourself. And I finally just saw that there was another mountain and tried to figure out what it would be, what's best for me to grow and be a better person. And so that was long-winded, but that is what my mountain was.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah,

Relearning Desire Without Guilt

SPEAKER_00 16:20

you know, I think the first part of the clouds parting in order to see that second mountain has to do with knowing what we want, which is very simple to say, but in the circumstance I was in and the one you describe, it isn't it isn't obvious. And I've had this experience many times talking to a very successful, ambitious, intelligent woman, and saying, What do you want? and she can rattle off without hesitation what each of the children need, what is necessary for the long-term financial planning, and what her husband needs in the way of this or that. And then I say, Yes, but what do you want for you? And sometimes a woman knows what kind of shoes she wants or something like that, but often the cost of success is disconnecting from our desires. And yes, there are things we know we should do that could look like a desire, but to actually feel desire, I I don't mean sexual desire, although that's certainly a part of it, but just any kind of desire. And I always like to include practical things. So if you're listening and this is really speaking to you, my first suggestion, well, I have two suggestions. One is just to make a point of sitting or laying down quietly for 10 minutes a day. Not, I mean, if you fall asleep, fine, but that doesn't count. And if you're running your to-do list in your mind, that doesn't count either. It's to just see when you're peaceful, when everything else is pushed away, what does arise? And sometimes we're just too like keyed up with too many tests, and it's hard to calm down. But on the days when we can be kind of calm, things arise that maybe they're surprising, maybe they're not, but they wouldn't have arisen if we didn't make space for it. And I'm not talking about meditating, that is its own thing. I'm just talking about seeing what arises. It sounds so simple, but it really is a powerful process that grows with each day. Like it's not that you do it once and you think, oh, now I know. No, it's about essentially befriending that inner part of yourself that does speak at the volume of whispers, unless there's a crisis, and making space to listen to it. So that is one practical thing. And the other is to make a point of every day having some moments at a minimum. I mean, it's great if this is most of the day, but if you start with moments, that's fine, where you experience pleasure through one or more of your senses. Because if it was if I say experience pleasure, where does your mind go? It often goes to something grand. And every day when we are awake, we have the opportunity to experience pleasure. So I'm thinking right now of a of a client that I was basically coaching on what we're talking about, and she's like, she just didn't know what I was talking about. Like she's very efficient, she knows how to get things done, but to experience pleasure, she was a little stumped. So I said, Well, do you have a skincare routine? She said, Yes. And I asked her to show me how do you wash your face, and so she brought her hands to her face. It was on Zoom, we're on Riverside, but you know, it was it was online, it wasn't in person, and she just like put her hands up and you know, rubbed her face, and it looks like the way I would use a sponge on a kitchen sink, just like scrub it. And so I said to her, Okay, well, your assignment is to wash your face the way you might caress, caress your baby, like to really have that contact with your face feel pleasurable, and it doesn't actually take that much longer to do it, although it can feel like it does because we need to slow down and breathe and be present, and if we are go, go, go, that transition can feel really time consuming. But in clock time, it doesn't take that much longer to have washing our face be something lovely, or maybe it's having a cup of coffee, but instead of just like pouring it and downing it, or tea, whatever your delight is, to enjoy the aroma. And pick a mug that feels good in your hand. It's the right weight, and you like the experience of the lip when you drink. Like when we bring attention to it, each of these sensations matters to us. And to I have another client with um a very demanding child with ADHD, and it's just hard for her to get a moment. So she gets up early and just sits on the couch in her living room and has her cup of coffee before doing anything with her to-do list or reading the news just to have a moment that feels good because the way we climb our next mountain, the way we enjoy what we already have, is to have moments that are enjoyable without any need of accomplishing anything else.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

I love that. All the sensory feelings. I mean, there was a time when I didn't even know what my favorite color or my favorite meal. I knew what my my children's favorite color and meals were, and my husband's and anyone else around me. I knew what they liked, and that's what I chose. And then I started asking myself this question, you'll like this. I started saying, okay, if none of these people were ever in my life and I had to go eat dinner somewhere, where would Pam go? Yes. It was just a way to make me think about what I would do if I had no one else to consider in my life. What would I choose?

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

And that's I started repeating that and it and it really helped me identify what I actually liked. And it was nothing like what every everyone else liked, unfortunately. But I was just a way of learning myself, just taking little moments like you talked about and recognizing who is this person?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yes. Yes. And what does she want? And where has she compromised?

Why Compromise Creates Disconnection

SPEAKER_00 24:22

I mean, that is something that I think is so important. The vast majority of lasting marriages are built with compromise pretty core. In fact, that is the most common relationship advice that is given. If you want to have a good marriage, you have to be good at compromise. And that is just completely wrong. If you want a pleasant, bland companionship, well, compromise, that is a good method. But if you want to be climbing that second mountain, if you want to feel alive and dynamic and lit up and passionate, that requires knowing what we want and being able to be self-expressed. And I love the example of, you know, what would Pam want in terms of food? And I think the key is, yes, to know what we want to eat, and then not to just know it privately. If if my husband and kids like Italian food and I want to have Korean, well, it would be common for me to just go to Italian for years and years because I I can find something on that menu that'll work for me. But if I want real intimacy and self-expression and a culture of vitality in my marriage, then I need to say to my husband, I really am yearning for Korean food. And we may still just go to Italian. That may still be what makes the most sense, but it's a completely different thing if he knows that it's a gift that I'm going to Italian food versus that's just what we do, then I feel unseen and like I'm unconsciously sacrificing and it's it's material to become resentful. And maybe he takes the kids to Italian and I go to Korean myself. Maybe we get takeout. There's so many different ways of working it, but it requires me to be clear what I want in small ways, like what kind of beverage I want, and what I want in big ways in terms of vocation and other things. And you can't shift it all, but you can build towards it starting now.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

I have noticed that on the questionnaire you filled out for the podcast. You talked about that uh about compromise not working. And most of us think that's what it takes to be in a good relationship. And I do agree with you. I think people misunderstand that. But I'm sure it's hard for people, especially women, because we think it's selfish for us to choose something we would want over what the rest of the family wants. We've been trained that way since early, early childhood. Yes. That we do what's best for our children and our spouse. How do you help people relearn and undo that pattern? How can they learn how to uh to not compromise?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Well, there are a few things that are just groundwork in making this shift out of compromising. One thing is to understand what compromise is. And when I talk about it, I am really highlighting the element that's relevant, which is that compromise is essentially withholding what's true for you so that your partner is more comfortable. Or so you don't have to deal with their response. But either way, it's withholding my truth so my husband is more comfortable. And when I'm doing that, that is essentially creating, it's creating an easier moment in the short term, but in the long term, that is a form of disconnection because I'm not letting him know me. I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm staying small. That doesn't work. But I want to be really clear that I'm not suggesting that you be uncompromising. It always has to be your way, my way, or the highway. I'm gonna get what I want because that's good for a relationship. Well, it is good for a relationship for you to get what you want, but not without considering your partner. So what I'm really talking about with uncompromising intimacy and how to choose intimacy, it's not dialing down what's important for you in the way we do with compromise. Sometimes both people are doing that, but that's still what's happening. And not dialing way up what's important to you to the point where you ignore your partner. The key is how you communicate it. So a lot of my work includes teaching individuals and couples how to identify what they want and how to express it in such a way that your partner receives it and is glad to share what's true for them as well. So I meant to be doing that a little bit with the example of um when I want Korean food. It's one thing if I say, look, I've been going to Italian for all these years, I want Korean food, and you all just better suck it up. No, it would not be kind. But the point is, it's not kind to myself to ignore that either. So there's so many aspects to this. I think the first thing really is to decide do you want to cultivate intimacy? I mean, if you're listening now, that is a very real question. And not everyone is going to say yes, not if you're honest with yourself. But if you decide and you commit to cultivating more intimacy, then that really means revealing more of the truth of who you are in a way that is not attacking, it is not nagging, it is not condescending, it is collaborative, connected, attuned, aligned, authentic. And so I think one of the main things is if you're going to share something to be clear with your spouse what kind of communication you're making. I actually think that that is one of the biggest problems in most marriages that two people are having a communication and they're not in agreement about what kind of communication it is. So if you want to communicate that you love Korean food, you want to set it up and say, I want to share something with you that I've never shared before, and I just want you to listen. Or I'm gonna share it with you, and then I'd love to find a way to have both of our needs met.

Intimacy As A Learnable Skill

SPEAKER_01 32:04

That is such an amazing approach. I noticed that I always tell people they can choose joy, but you help people choose intimacy. And I can help people with the pause before their automatic behaviors, autopilot, their own autopilot. Yeah. So if we teach them how to take a moment before the behavior and realize why am I doing this? At first glance, it's very different conversations. I think they're both really about becoming intentional. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Yes, I I think so too, and I think they're very aligned. And choosing intimacy is exactly what you describe about choosing joy and then taking it into the relational realm. So it's not just choosing joy for myself, although that is part of it. I would say more it's pausing and choosing authenticity, and which is gonna have a lot more joy than people might imagine. It's not I'm authentically disappointed, that's some of it, but you need the whole spectrum to be real. But regardless, it's yes, it's exactly what you've described your work is, and then includes how to convey that so somebody else can hear it without feeling attacked or undermined, because so often we respond to our spouse feeling defensive or hurt, or like that's the way we hear it, or we hear what's being said, but our response doesn't really touch the person who shared where they want to be touched. So there's a lot more communication technology to kind of complete the throw with that. But I think the starting point is exactly the same and essential.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

It's a choice and making yourself aware. I love so much how you say, I've heard you say it many times when I was looking into your work, that having a fantastic relationship is actually a learnable skill.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Right on.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

I love that because it gives people hope. Because a lot of times people think they're just not an open, intimate person. My husband is a perfect example. He's very technical, and intimacy it requires work from his end because I need it a lot. And he's like, I could do without it. That's how you feel. But what made you realize intimacy isn't something people either have or don't have, but something we can learn.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Well, I'm gonna answer that, but let me just say I love coaching clients like your husband. Because in that situation, it's about using his intelligence and his perspective and applying it in the realm of communication, relational intimacy, and that pivot to apply it in marriage that is not intuitive and rarely modeled, but it is those same skills. I think one of the things that can be so confusing and confronting for an engineer husband is thinking that he needs to have this whole other way of communicating in order to create emotional intimacy. And I just love teaching smart, logical men how to use the skills they have and successfully bring them into intimacy building. So um the question you asked me, oh, how did I come to that? It's related because so my husband is not an engineer, he's a physician, but his his um his college major at Harvard was math, and so I just mean to say all that that he is a very logical, brainy person, and he has no sisters, and he he had some relationship experience, but there's a way in which he just had never interacted with someone like me with as much. I mean, I did learn to dial it down so he would be more comfortable, which is kind of part of the context of my discovering the importance of uncompromising intimacy. But in the meantime, he he just really he wanted to be successful, he wanted to make me happy, and neither were happening. And so he used to say, this was in the very early years of our marriage, we've been married for over 30 years now, but early on he used to say, I wish I had a manual to know how to be married to you. And when he first said that, I just laughed it off. I thought it was a joke. Then I realized he was serious and I found it disgusting. Like I thought, what is wrong with me that somebody needs a manual in order to know how to have what I think of as basic meaningful interactions with me? But then I moved past that, right? There are always phases and evolution and ideally if we don't get stuck. And then I thought, actually, this is what he wants. And so I learned it was it was not easy and it was not particularly enjoyable at first, but I learned to express what I want and need, not the way I think about it, not the way I talk to myself about it, not the way I might discuss it with a girlfriend, but to express it in a way that he could understand and then implement and be successful. And that has worked very well for me. So having a fantastic relationship is a learnable skill. I think um my my first experiment and conviction about this is my husband, but I have since taught thousands of couples, and some of my favorite responses I I now have in mind, and a man who is an engineer also, and after our first session together, he said he he um grew up in an Eastern European country with a pretty rigorous math and science curriculum. And he said, you know, I've spent all this time doing math and science. I wish some of this had been in my high school curriculum because this is probably more important. I mean, this was a man not looking for an engineering job, but looking to find his way to a marriage that worked better for his wife when he was basically satisfied, except her dissatisfaction was a problem for him. But then he learned and found it so valuable to have the way of having a fantastic relationship broken down into chapters and paragraphs and sentences so that they could then be implemented.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Yes, and success is so important, especially for men in all areas, all aspects, being the provider, being the wonderful husband, pleasing their wife. And if they don't feel that success, what's the opposite of it? They feel failed. And a man that feels failed is the one that is getting more and more bitter. I've been married over 30 years too, and we've been through a lot together. Yes, well, I agree with you. Bitter and shut down. Yes, because they don't want to fail. They don't want to feel shame. A lot of men misunderstand the word intimacy. They immediately think sex or something close to that. I think you're talking about something much bigger than that with intimacy. Yeah, what is choosing intimacy look like in everyday life?

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Well,

Small Moments That Build Closeness

SPEAKER_00 41:02

I want to say I also mean sex. I just don't only mean sex. So I think when it comes to intimacy, it really has to do with the quality of connection, with feeling seen and heard, cherished and respected, with really feeling like you're there for one another in a in a very foundational way. And and also there's room for playfulness and sorrow and just the full spectrum. Like I think really intimacy is about revealing oneself to one's partner. Sometimes people use the expression intimacy means into me you see. And while I don't think that's exactly wrong, I think it really puts the emphasis in the wrong place. It puts it with the seer, and I think the way intimacy is built is really through intentional, well-calibrated revealing of who I am and what is alive in me and my dreams and my insecurities and whatever it is that intimacy really is the act of allowing myself to be seen. And as human beings, we really crave to be seen. And I I guess I want to add one more thing, which is that as mammals, we learn through imitation. We don't learn calculus and chemistry through imitation, but we learn relationships through imitation. And very few of us have models that result in our having the skills that create intimacy and nourishing connection in and out of the bedroom. So when it comes to choose intimacy, which is the the name for my method and what I stand for in everything I say, it's really about using every interaction to build more intimacy. Because as I like to say, when it comes to a long-term relationship, everything which is in sex functions as foreplay because each interaction, it either brings you a little bit or a lot closer together or pushes you a little bit or a lot further apart. And I think that when it feels like there isn't time or effort, whatever, we can squander the opportunities that we actually all have to choose intimacy. So an example of that is simply in the Morning. Pausing, slowing down, look your partner in the eyes and say good morning. And it doesn't take long, but it's a moment that can bring you closer together. It it can contribute to experiencing more intimacy versus not saying anything or good morning, but you know, you can tell my attention is already somewhere else. And um we can think that, oh, it's in the grand gestures or romantic getaways or an expensive gift or a declaration of something of love that this is how intimacy is built, and it isn't. It can be added to, but fundamentally, intimacy is or isn't going to blossom in the small moments, in the transitions, in slowing down, connecting with yourself, connecting with your spouse, and choosing intimacy.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

And really implementing all of that is a lot of times it's very hard to show your partner who you are, your real self, because you don't know who your real self is. I mean, it's real easy to say everything that you don't like, but it's for some reason difficult for a lot of women to say what they do like. They know what they don't like.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Yes well expressed that. I had a teacher um who used to say hidden in every complaint is a desire. And interesting. Yes, and so going back to what we were talking about earlier, sometimes if a woman doesn't know what she wants, I'll invite her to just write down her complaints because within each one there is a desire. So for example, he doesn't pay enough attention to me. Well, the desire is for him to pay attention more. Okay, so your desire is that he asks for your opinion, that he includes you in making decisions. It isn't I mean, it's just a logical flip, it's not difficult. But I so I I wouldn't say eliminate the complaints, yeah, but use them as a springboard to desires rather than just getting stuck in them.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Exactly. Exactly. I think

When Marriage Activates Old Wounds

SPEAKER_01 47:01

a lot of women listening are thinking I'm successful, I love my family, so why do I still feel disconnected? What would you say to her? What could she try start trying to do?

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Well, I would look for what has you feel disconnected, and is there any time in your life where you had that feeling before you were even married? Because there are a lot of different ways to approach what you've just asked, but one of them is that it goes back to the purpose of marriage, which used to be for financial reasons, for political reasons, a lot of different reasons that I'm not going to do a whole anthropological uh analysis right now. But the point is that I think one of the purposes of marriage is healing and thriving. And when we are in an intimate relationship, we've been together for some number of years, it is inevitable that childhood wounding is activated. Sometimes it doesn't take that long, but either way, that childhood wounding is activated. And then that's one of the challenging phases of marriage, which you know, things cycle through, it doesn't just happen once, but because it can feel often unconsciously like our spouse is hurting us in just the ways that we were hurt in childhood and never really healed from. And if there's no healing, that continues and becomes like exponentially more painful. However, when that happens, there really is an opportunity to see what needs to be healed and do the work to heal that. And when both people are doing that, then the quality of the marriage really becomes extraordinary. So uh to give an example of that, I had a couple that I coached years ago, and they had a good, strong marriage, a lot of love, they got along well, and the main reason that they wanted to work with me is because most Saturday mornings they were fighting. And this was this was a while ago and when people read paper newspapers, and he worked really hard, and on Saturday mornings he really liked to just put his feet up and read the newspaper, and she would start talking to him and asking him questions and trying to get him to engage, you know, like someone with anxious attachment. And he just found it so annoying because they had a good relationship. He worked hard, he just wanted to have some peace Saturday mornings reading the newspaper, peace and quiet. And what eventually came out is that she had grown up in an alcoholic family, and her father always went quiet before he became violent. And so she was totally unconscious of this. She she wasn't thinking about her father, about her childhood at all. She just was like itchy to engage and felt ignored and wanted to interact with him. But once she saw, oh, when he goes quiet, he wasn't even much of a drinker, and he certainly wasn't a violent man. But once he goes quiet, it's like the little girl in her got scared when the man she loves became quiet. But as soon as she saw it, she then could turn her attention to her own healing and was fine with him reading the newspaper, though he was a very kind man. He said, Look, I don't want to contribute to your suffering. I I don't need to re you know, I'm happy to talk with you Saturday mornings, but she didn't really need it anymore once she got free. But she she wouldn't have gotten there without that interaction with her husband. And I really like this as an example because our our spouses can objectively be completely different than our parents, but they still serve the function of activating the younger parts of ourselves that need to be healed. If they don't need to be healed because they've already been healed or there was no wounding, then fine, we're all set with that. But without that, that inevitably happens. And if people don't work with a coach or do some other form of personal growth, then they get trapped in these dynamics because invariably they're a blind spot. So I think that individual growth in and healing in the way that I've been talking about is just essential to have a hot, intimate marriage. You can't do that while parts of you are asleep.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Exactly. It's simple, but it it's not.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

You know simple to say implementation is a bear.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Yes. And that was my next final question for you.

One Small Choice To Start Today

SPEAKER_01 52:57

If someone realizes they've been surviving, they've been performing, or checking every box and they don't feel deeply connected to themselves or to the people they love, what's a one small choice they could make today to begin choosing that intimacy?

SPEAKER_00 53:19

Well, I think different people are gonna find their answer in different ways. So I'd want to do a little bit of a buffet because that first step has to be appealing. Once we're further down the journey, we can do things that we have some resistance to, but that first step has to be appealing. So I think one simple one is journaling. And um I knew I loved you from the start. And so a prompt might be um what do I wish I had known when I were young? That's one. Another one might be um, what are the parts of myself that I want to reconnect with? It you can also just write without a prompt. I'm just giving you a place to start to basically rebuild the relationship with listening to what's going on inside. So that's one. I think another one for somebody who prefers to be more active is to put on some music and just dance. And the point is to just let the energy move through you and see how you feel afterwards. In other words, it's a combination of yes, your movements are voluntary, you're directing yourself, but you're also kind of surrendering to the sounds of the music and letting them move through you. I think another is to start with identifying your desires. And sometimes the simplest thing is to make a point of each day doing something and allowing yourself to feel the pleasure in it. Often it's not even doing something different than you usually do, but just allowing yourself to feel the pleasure in it. So when you walk out your front door, take a moment to enjoy the sunshine on your face, or you know, not if it's sweltering heat, but take a moment and put your face in the blossoms and enjoy how they smell. Like it I'm not, I mean, journaling can be time consuming depending on how much of it you do, but I really meant for everything I've suggested to really not take that much time and be a kind of a doorway into opening the relationship with yourself and then having that to reveal to your partner.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

Definitely. And I do want to say on journaling and the way the brain works, if you're listening to this, yes, you you are busy. And a lot of my clients tell me, I just the thought of adding one more thing to do in my day just is over overwhelming. And I always tell them, but do you you talk about your feelings or your thoughts? It's much easier to do that, isn't it? Yes, it doesn't require a lot of time. And I said, but that gives you relief. That's why we go to therapy, that's why we talk to our girlfriends or we speak it and it gives us relief. But journaling, like actually writing pen to paper, gives your brain the chance to process those feelings. And there is a difference, and it literally takes seconds just to write one sentence. And over a two-week period, you'll see a pattern. I promise. So I always do challenge people to try it just for two

Where To Find Alexandra And Closing

SPEAKER_01 57:06

weeks. Alexandra, can you tell everyone how we can best find you and your work?

SPEAKER_00 57:11

Yes, thank you. Alexandrastockwell.com. That is my website, and from there you can find all of the goodies. You can download the first chapter of my book. You can find my podcast, the Intimate Marriage Podcast. I have many different online courses and programs and private coaching and all of the things. I have an app for building these skills. But the main thing is go to alexandristockwell.com.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Right. And we'll be sure and list that in the show notes, but y'all need to listen to her podcast. I I have just like become enthralled with it every day. I listen to another episode because I learned so much. It's amazing. It's a great podcast. It's worth checking out, y'all. So Alexander.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

Yes. Thank you so much for your time. What I love about today's conversation is that you reminded us that intimacy isn't built through grand gestures. It's built in the little moments, the conversations we choose to have, the way we show up, the small decisions we make every single day. Whether today's conversation made you think about marriage, your family, or simply the relationship with yourself, I hope it reminded you that meaningful change rarely happens all at once. It begins with awareness. You don't have to fix everything today. You only have to pause long enough to notice what's happening. And choose your next right step. Pause, choose, build momentum, finish stronger, and I will see you all next week. Thanks so much, Alexandra. Appreciate you. Thank you.