Why Good Parents Lose Their Patience | Michelle Puster

Most parents don't lose their patience because they're bad parents.

They lose it because they're exhausted.

In this episode of Delay the Binge™, Pam Dwyer sits down with therapist, parent educator, and founder of Compassionate Heart Parenting, Michelle Puster, to explore what happens when burnout, shame, and nervous system overwhelm quietly shape the way we respond to our children.

Michelle shares her personal journey through parent burnout, growing up in a family impacted by addiction, and learning how self-compassion became the key to breaking generational cycles without becoming trapped in guilt and self-criticism.

Together, they discuss why so many parents feel like they're failing, how quiet depletion affects families, and practical ways to pause before reacting.

In This Episode

✔ Parent burnout and emotional exhaustion

✔ Breaking generational patterns

✔ Why self-compassion matters

✔ The connection between shame and reactivity

✔ How nervous system overload impacts parenting

✔ The RAIN practice for emotional regulation

✔ Why you don't have to start over after a difficult moment

If you've ever walked away from a parenting moment wondering, "Why did I react like that?" this conversation is for you.

Connect with Michelle Puster

Website:
 https://compassionateheartmindfullife.com

Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-puster-keynote-speaker/
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/compassionateheartparenting
FB: https://www.facebook.com/CompassionateHeartMindfulLife


YouTube: https://youtube.com/@compassionateheartmichelle?si=Bm7zH31WsROxc748

Transcript

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Why We React With Our Kids

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You know what? You can love your kids deeply and still find yourself reacting in ways you swore you never would. And when that happens, you don't pause to yourself. All over time, that pattern doesn't just affect you. It starts shaping your relationship with your children. Today we're talking about what's really happening in that moment and how you break that cycle without breaking yourself. Welcome to the Delay the Bench Podcast, where we explore the moment before the habit. Because that moment is where everything changes. I'm Pam Dwyer, and if you've ever walked away from a moment thinking, why did I react like that? This conversation is for you. Today I'm joined by Michelle Custer. She's a therapist, a parent educator, and the founder of Compassionate Heart Parenting, where she helps parents move from self-criticism to self-reflection with compassion. After experiencing burnout herself as both a new parent and a therapist, driven by patterns of overworking and people pleasing, she began exploring what was really underneath those reactions. The emotional triggers and nervous system patterns that show up in real time. Growing up in a family impacted by addiction, Michelle is deeply passionate about helping parents break generational cycles. With more awareness, resilience, and self-compassion. Michelle, welcome to the show. I'm really

Burnout, Shame, And Quiet Depletion

SPEAKER_00 1:39

glad you're here.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Thank you, Pam. Thank you so much for having me. I love the space that you've created for people to make small shifts and turn inward. So this is a really exciting place to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Oh, thank you so much. I'm excited too, and I know my listeners are too. What are you most passionate about right now? And what are you working on that you you'd love people to know about?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Yeah, well, I um from my own experience, like you just described, of burnout and those bathroom floor moments where I was sitting and crying and filled with shame and eventually climbing out of that hole. I was like, you know, I do not want parents to feel alone in this. I want to, I want them to hear my voice when they're sitting on their bathroom floor in tears. And I want them to know, like, you know, because the shame tells us we're alone, we're the only ones. So I really want to let parents know that they are not alone in their struggles. They're not alone in feeling guilt and shame and struggling in those difficult moments, like you described. So it's kind of my mission to let parents know that they're not alone with those painful feelings.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And that is key. That's so important. And that's what stood out to me about your work when I was doing my research on you and learning from you, is that you're not just helping parents change their behavior, you're helping them understand what's happening inside them in the moment. And that's where everything can shift.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Right. Yeah. And a lot of parenting stuff out there focuses on children's behavior, which is really important and it's helpful for us to understand. But we as the parents have so much influence, right? And how we show up is directly influenced by how we are doing ourselves. So we we really do need to look inward and be curious about, oh, why did I get so triggered? Or why is it so upsetting for me when my kid slams the door in my face or yells or, you know, does the normal things that kids do that are difficult for all of us as parents, but why did it hit me that way? And why did I yell and you know, become come down harshly on them when I knew they were just struggling, when I knew they were having a hard time? Like what happened inside of me that I kind of lost access to my knowledge and skills and stuff in that moment and just got stuck in reactivity. And I also found like we cannot look inward unless we look inward with compassion. Because otherwise we look inward with criticism and blame and shame, and things don't get better. They get far worse.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

We always go to the negative, and I've been looking a lot into the brain, the neuroscience of things, and once the brain learns a pattern, it takes you there every time. And I just sometimes I noticed I have two children and raising them when they were young, it was very easy for me to answer their little questions or even morality, belief systems, all of that was real easy because you could be very vague with it. But as they age, as they get older, I noticed that you have to really dig deep and know yourself so that you can answer them in more detail. But that was my challenge. Do you see that a lot?

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Yes. That um, I mean, I think you're right. We just kind of, I don't know, I came into parenting with unrealistic expectations that I'd just be able to be the parent I wanted to be and show up calmly and you know, do the things that I liked that my parents did and and leave the other things behind and it would be easy breezy. And then and I also had all this skill. Like I was a special ed teacher. So I was trained in child development. I was then a therapist. I was trained in emotionally focused therapy and patterns and understanding the neurology and all of it. And then I became a parent, and something totally different happened. Like I was confronted with the reality of what happens to my nervous system when their little nervous systems are in disarray. And it was um very confronting. It was very confronting. It was also kind of confronting to realize like I ran on so little. I think I've heard you talk about this on your podcast a lot, that the overworking and the overperforming, I guess is a better way of saying it. And I think we can sort of live in a pretty high-functioning place until something in our life, for me, it was parenting, just slams it in our face that this overperforming thing isn't really working inside. Like I'm falling apart inside, even though I look really good on the outside and everything looking good. And from the outside, it's perfect, but inside I'm falling apart. And that I think that was like thrown in my face as a parent because I couldn't parent calmly and peacefully and with compassion and being present when I was running on empty.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Oh my gosh. You're you should be on every single podcast that we have episode we because we talk a lot about quiet depletion, especially in women, uh, because that's we're doing all the things we should do. You know, we're we're doing exactly what we think is the best thing we can do as a parent and checking all the boxes, but inside we're so depleted and exhausted and just trying to figure things out, but we w we don't want to give ourselves time. So we we act on unhealthy behaviors that our children are watching, quite frankly, and learning and absorbing. The burnout is real. When people think about burnout, they don't they don't always connect it to parenting. So what does unexpected parent burnout actually look like, especially for someone who feels like they should be handling it better?

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Mm-hmm. Well, one of the first parts is I think when we don't realize that we're running on empty, you know, and we're that we then if we if we aren't able to do it the way we think it should look, like calmly, and I want to be this kind of like chill, easygoing mom and be able to kind of roll with things, then I must be failing. If I'm falling apart, if I'm screaming, if I'm losing it, I must be failing. And so there is an overlay of shame that it's kind of just a um, it's like, I don't know, this is the structure that was given to me, and this is what I'm supposed to be able to perform in. And so if I'm not able to perform, I must be failing rather than seeing like, oh, the structure that I was given is a bunch of BS and I shouldn't be able to be this high performer with, you know, no resourcing myself. And that's not realistic. And we do need community and we do need support, and I do need to take care of myself, and all of that does matter. It's not just, you know, frivolous stuff. Um, that actually it's impossible. It's not a personal failure. So the first thing I think is shame because and the worst part about shame is it keeps us quiet. We don't want to tell our friends that we're falling apart. We don't want to tell our friends that we lost it on our kid. We don't want to, because we think everybody else is got it together. We think everybody else is, you know, doing the thing that we can't do. So it again, it just keeps us in this loop of it must be my personal failure. And then the other thing that you're talking about is what does it look like? For me, it looked like I remember really distinctly coming home one day after, you know, working with clients and, you know, really sitting with other people's emotions. And so that can be draining, right? Yeah. And I come home to these little people. They were like three under the age of three at the time, and they really needed not just me physically, but they needed my presence and my emotional connection. And I was drained. I felt like a shell of a person. And my little daughter, she came and snuggled with me. And I remember recoiling, just like I didn't have it to give. And that was, I mean, it just still stays with me. The I was like, what is wrong with me that my little girl just wants the most natural thing? And I never, I wanted to be parent more than anything. I didn't ever think I'd recoil from my child. So it was very confusing. And until I really understood what was happening, which took years, unfortunately, um, I was, it was filled, I was filled with shame as a result. And there's there was that quiet pattern, and then there was the yelling pattern, which is the whole other part of the burnout.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

It's the ever-elusive balance, the balance, balancing everything so that you're not draining, depleting everything that's inside of you, because ultimately, at the end of the day, the most important part of our of our lives is what we come home to, especially, you know, with children. And you're right, we're just depleting ourselves. So we have nothing left to give. Now, if how much of that is actually coming from patterns people don't even realize

Autopilot Patterns And Impossible Standards

SPEAKER_00 11:23

they're carrying into parenting?

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Yeah, I think a hundred percent. I mean, I think that's the hardest thing is we have all these patterns that we don't realize that are there, and they're just kind of like running on autopilot in the background. And then they, I mean, I think the way that it often comes out is we kind of feel like we're okay, you know, and then our then our child ignores us when we ask them to do something, or they, you know, slam the door because they've had a hard day, and then we lose it. And I feel like that is the canary in the coal mine. That's the, uh-oh, maybe I'm not quite as okay as I think I am. Maybe I'm really actually running on empty. And I think that's the thing that parents don't often, we don't know. We don't know that we are running on empty. We don't know that we, you know, are trying to live at an expectation that's really not realistic. And that until it kind of like the fragile house, you know, gets shaken, we don't even always see it, other than probably just being exhausted, feeling kind of resentful, feeling kind of like this constant low hum of guilt, anger, frustration, this guilt of I why don't I love my life? Like I have sometimes an awesome parent, like an awesome partner. Uh, maybe I have an awesome career. Maybe I have like I have always wanted to be parent. I have these kids, like maybe I live in a nice house, whatever it is. Like I have a lot of things that I thought would be make me happy, right? And then I'm not happy. What's wrong with me? And of course, nothing's wrong with that person that has have that has that feeling. It's the this gap between where we think we should be and the reality of life and being human, and that that's an impossible gap. And so we always feel like we're falling short.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

And being okay with where you're at. I always give this uh, I tell this short little brief story, and I actually wrote something about it too in one of my short stories, but it's about climbing the mountain. Whatever your mountain is, is your life, and you're you're sweating, you're climbing, doing the doing all the hard work. And then if you're not careful, when you get to the top to the summit, you're gonna feel empty. You're not gonna feel anything inside because you didn't take the time to look around while you were climbing and to to to focus on your yourself and grow yourself. Because that's quite frankly, I think that's the best thing you can do for your children. I mean, what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Yes, a hundred percent. Like I think um Daniel Siegel at one of the parenting gurus talks about that that, you know, the biggest thing that we can do for our parents is have insight and personal growth ourselves. Like that's the biggest predictor of how well kids are gonna do. And so we kind of feel like, well, I'll just like shove myself into a box and I'll just kind of like grin and bear it and I'll pour everything into my kids, which is, you know, a noble kind of idea. But I think it's just nearly impossible because it's we can't really be there for our kids and model what we want to model and be present if we're really running on empty and kind of a shell of ourselves or falling apart inside. And it can be really hard. I think I remember my parenting coach would often ask me, what do you need? What do you need? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what I need. I know I need to not be miserable, I need to not yell so much. I mean, she kept asking this question. And I remember I like starting to break patterns. I was like, okay, I recognize that I overwork and I overdo and I overperform. So I'm just gonna, you know, not rush home right after work. And if I, you know, end work early, I'm just gonna go and sit. And I remember like sitting in this store parking lot, crying in the car, thinking, well, I am breaking a pattern, but I don't, I know going into the store isn't gonna like fill me up. So another time I remember breaking a pattern was I like always in like doing, doing, doing, right? So it's like I do the dishes and then do this, and then there's like always something, and rather than just like being. And so I I was like, okay, I'm just gonna sit. So I just would sit on the couch. I'm like, this is so weird and uncomfortable. Like, but it was helpful to just, like you said, the the neurons that wire together fire together. The patterns are so deep and like I just had to notice the patterns and then just start trying to do something different. And it was interesting to see how strange it felt and uncomfortable. And and then eventually over time, now I can, you know, notice my kids' eyes and notice their smile and notice, you know, like how I'm feeling like, oh, I'm feeling pretty calm today, or I'm feeling a little bit agitated, or you know, it's easier to be in the moment, but it didn't look, you know, it looked really bumpy initially breaking those patterns. It was not like it was not easy process. It took time. And I think like you I love the way you say small shifts make such a big difference because I just had to just start trying to do something different and just notice. And that was a those small shifts became huge shifts over the course of years.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yes, awareness, right? That is key. And and the the patterns, you know, can be anything for anyone, like perfectionism, the shame, the fear, the guilt, you know, all of that, it's so deeply embedded. And I was wondering why does that have such a strong hold on parents? It's like it's very hard to first of all become aware. But then once you are aware, how do you make that change?

SPEAKER_02 17:27

That's a great question. I think the good news is the reason it's such a strong hold on us as parents is because we care so deeply. You know, we care so deeply about our children, we care so deeply about how we're showing up as parents, we care so deeply about are they okay? Are they gonna be okay? And the the second part you asked, how can we start to shift?

Small Shifts That Rewire Habits

SPEAKER_02 17:47

So one of the practices that I love using that I learned from Tara Brock, and I kind of changed it up a little bit for parents is the rain practice. So essentially, anytime I used to use it, especially when I would yell to pause the yelling pattern. But um so anytime I noticed being agitated or shutting down or yelling, I'd pause, take myself into the other room. And the R is recognize I'm feeling angry, I'm frustrated, I don't like what's happening, I'm sad, I'm disappointed, I'm afraid. You know, it there's usually a whole bunch of emotions at once, right? But even just recognizing, we start to be out of it a little bit and we start to look at, oh, okay, this is what anger and frustration looks like. So then the A is allow. Can I allow these emotions to be present versus um judging them or shutting them down, right? Because we generally we feel terrible emotions and we are either like, I shouldn't feel that way, I shouldn't be so mean or bad, or I shouldn't get so upset, or this feels terrible, but shut it that off. You know, I'm just like, don't feel it. And I love Jeff Warren, he's a meditation teacher, says, Welcome to the party. So I often say, Welcome to the party, anger, welcome to the party, guilt, welcome to the party, whatever. And I think of it as that movie inside out and the little characters that the anger guy and the sad girl, you know, and that that's what that movie is all about is it's okay for the these emotions to be present. We need all of these emotions. So, okay, welcome to the party, sadness. And I picture, you know, I picture myself offering my sad self like a blanket and a tea. And then the eye is interconnected, which is about I'm not alone because the shame says I'm the only one. What's wrong with me? Right. So interconnected is it's a reason. It's a lot of parents are struggling with being frustrated with their kids. Probably another parent is frustrated right now in this moment. It's normal for parents to feel guilty. I'm not alone in feeling guilty. And Kristen Neff talks about that as common humanity, right? So it's very intentionally reminding ourselves. And parents listening can say, okay, well, Pam, I know Pam felt this way. I know Michelle feels this way. So, because our brains will be like, no, not that's that's me. I'm the only bad one, not other parents. So it's really helpful to remind ourselves we are not alone in this. And then the in is nurture need. So it might be, can I be gentle with myself when I'm feeling this anger or sadness? Can I be gentle with myself? Uh, it could be um another need that I like to do is bring my older, wiser self next to my, you know, sad child itself, right? And and and kind of say, like, I see you, I see that you're trying hard, I see that you're, you know, a good parent, you're doing the best you can, and it's gonna be okay. So the need can be, it could be like texting your partner or a friend, like, oh, this is happening and I'm really frustrated and I don't like the in is a can be a lot of different things. Oftentimes connection is an important one, but we can't always, you know, in those moments connect with someone. So the the intentional compassion, and I'm putting my hands on my chest intentionally because that's a grounding exercise. It's an exercise of like letting our brain know that um we're meeting ourselves with softness and compassion. Can I be gentle with myself in this difficult moment? It's centers, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

It centers you, it kind of just brings you back. It it allows you to pause and take advantage of the seconds before you react. You know, Michelle Cantrell shared with me uh a vision that she had or a dream, and it was all about each. Like a new boy, it was a baby and it was her, and she would comfort it, saying, I'm here now and I love you. And then she went to the next stage level. I just love that so much because we need to remind ourselves to comfort the different phases of life that we have inside of us that we will always carry with us. And then remind ourselves to treat our child, our our children just like that because they

The RAIN Method For Triggers

SPEAKER_00 22:27

need it.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Right. I love that, Pam. It makes me think of one of the, I kind of think of the rain practices therapy in my pocket, you know? And one of the times that I was triggered by something, I realized, oh, it's chaos. I grew up in a lot of chaos, and chaos is triggering for me. So even when my kids were like happy and like running around, but it felt manic and chaotic, it would be triggering for me. And I like when I would sit with myself, it was like I was back home, 13, feeling overwhelmed and feeling like scared. And so it's kind of like I love the way that you're describing that Michelle said that.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Thinking about my younger self. I'm here, you're safe now. Yes. You're not back at in that situation anymore. You're in a safe place. Because when we get triggered, our brain doesn't trauma doesn't have a time stamp. So we can be back there and not even realize that that's why we're reacting and having this big reaction.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Oh, it's actually and you're a therapist, so you know this. I mean, I've been in like probably 10 years of therapy just to recover from my childhood, but it's helped me a lot in realizing that that is forever, those tendencies. It's just if you get help, they teach you how to cope with it and be aware of it and then know what to do to to cope with it. And so I I do have to rely on my coping skills and and it's never completely gone. It's just I have to realize, okay, this is happening because, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Yes. And it does it that that line even, this is happening for a good reason. It's not because I'm crazy or bad, right? It's not because you all the listeners are crazy or bad. It's because there's a good reason. If you're shutting down, if you're overperforming, if you're yelling at your kiddos, whatever it is, there must be a good reason. There's some that's kind of the canary in the coal mine, right? There, there's yes, there's a behavior that you're not liking, and there must be a good reason. It's not because you're bad.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

No, and that's you know, we teach the pause so that you can ask yourself, what's really going on here? You know, and bring that frontal cortex back online. Right instead of the lower brain. Lower brain chatter is deafening. But um I I noticed that um well, you shared something several times when I was watching some of your videos and stuff, and and you said there was a moment when you realized your self-criticism was actually causing you more pain for you and your children, and also in the current situation, whatever it was you were going through. So can you take us into that moment or even better, let us hear about your childhood, how you grew up in the chaos?

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah. So um, well, there was some alcoholism in the in my childhood. And so even though, of course, people were doing the best that they could, there was an impact on that. And it was an invisible impact for a long time. But I was really lucky that when I was 13, it's kind of like the there was a big, you know, falling apart. And

When The Past Hijacks The Present

SPEAKER_02 25:48

the big falling apart led to my mom went to Al-Anon and I went to Alateen. And I feel like that was life-changing for me because now we were talking about. I remember going to high school and being, you know, being really depressed and just like sitting and thinking, I don't care if anybody sees, you know, how I'm feeling. But um, but it was invisible, right? If it was cancer in my family, people would have come around us and talked, like, oh, I'm so sorry that, you know, someone in your family has cancer. And, you know, you know, there would be that community support, but alcoholism made it like shameful. You don't talk about it. So when I went to Alatine, it was like for the first time, people were talking about their experiences as someone that they loved had alcoholism, and someone that they loved was doing things that were chaotic and scary. And and so that for the first time, it was support, and I didn't have to carry the shame any longer. And so um, I think that has just that was changed the trajectory of our family. It changed the trajectory of my mom and my relationship, it changed that my trajectory because I was starting, you know, heavily drinking myself, and I was on the path to, you know, severe depression and all the things. So I don't even want to think about how things would have gone if I hadn't found allatine. Um, and then as, and it is interesting, right? Like how then I have kids and I'm in a moment, I'm in the middle of my day, and something that they say or do triggers something inside of me. And of course, initially I would just yell and lose it, and then there would be that. But eventually I learned how to pause. So I love that you're teaching boss. I learned how to pause and remove myself. And what would happen is I would go into that shame spiral so fast. I would be like, what's wrong with me? Why do I get so upset? Like, what the heck is wrong? Like, that's what it was just so-and-so would never yell at their kids like this. So-and-so would never lose it. And so in that moment, I was like, Oh my gosh, I my self-criticism and self-loathing and blame and shame is causing me more pain in my kids because then I would be like just this shell of a person. I would come out of the bathroom and they would be moved on and they would be like, they're fine. And I'm just like for hours, sometimes days. And I realized I need some kind of tool other than just not yelling, because not yelling and then falling into a pit of shame is not helpful to me or my kids. And that's when I started the self-compassion practice. And I have this pause and regroup on my website, which is people can put their earbuds in and I will walk them through. Awesome, you've paused. Okay, let's talk about what's happening. If you there's a lot of anger, I walk them through like wringing a towel or pushing against a wall because it's like your body's filled with adrenaline. It's just a normal physiological response to being triggered. So it's like letting that move through in a healthy way. And then the next part is shifting thoughts. So noticing, like, oh, when I think about how terrible I am or how terrible my kids are, that fuels the fire.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Okay, can I shift? Oh, my kiddo's having a hard time. I'm having a hard time. That's a lot softer kind of way of thinking about what's happening. And then bringing the self-compassion. Can I be gentle with myself in this moment? Can I be gentle with my kiddo in this moment when I'm having a hard time, when I'm struggling? And that um using that self-compassion practice over and over and over again not only helped like, yeah, less, but also helped me change my inner relationship with myself, which that came out of the bathroom, right? That came into my everyday life and came into like now. I'm not getting in that cycle as often. So that's the work that I help parents do is looking inward, but looking inward with compassion.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Gosh, I love that so much. My son, my the my oldest, he he and his wife, his beautiful wife, they have twin boys that are 11 and a little girl that's six. And when they come see Grammy, you know, they're like, Daddy's yelling at us because he's always mad at us, you know. I I need to point them to your website so they can put those earbuds in and listen so they can calm down, you know, because I don't think a lot of people realize that yelling is just as painful and damaging as physically hitting someone. I mean, it does the same thing to the brain. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yes, yes. It triggers the threat response, right? So we we want our kids to learn, right? And we want them to hopefully like understand, oh, this is this is not okay and this is okay. But when they're in the threat response, because probably they've already, you know, they're already struggling, they're

Self-Criticism Keeps You Stuck

SPEAKER_02 31:07

doing something. But then when we yell, that sends an uh-oh signal to their brain. I if I'm not okay with mom and dad, I'm not okay. So now they're whatever they were already dealing with, they were struggling with something. And now they're in a threat response of mom or dad's upset with me. That's scary, you know. They don't feel safe. They don't feel safe. And it, and that's I mean, I don't ever want parents to feel like I know me listening 10 years ago immediately to shame. Oh my gosh, I yelled at my kids, they don't feel safe. So it's important that we can hear this and know like it's okay. We all struggle as parents, and the only thing we can do as human beings is try to learn and grow from those experiences.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yes. And someone said something to me so wise a while back because we were talking about my childhood, which was very abusive, and um growing up like that was was quite painful. But I never once doubted that my mom loved me. I know that sounds crazy, but kids are so resilient, and your mom is your mom, and no matter what mistakes they're making with you, if you doubt that they love you, then I think it's harder to to co learn how to cope with what happened. But everyone asked me, How did you ever get through that? And I just said, Well, I knew that she loved me, you know, I in her way. She loved me the best way she knew how. And I understood that very young. Maybe that is why, you know, I was able to take care of her the last 10 years of her life. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Yeah, I'm sure that made a huge difference. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Yeah. Yeah. So the most powerful thing I think about your message is that people believe being harder on themselves will make them better.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

But what you describe is the opposite. And so for someone who's been hard on themselves their whole life, how do they begin that shift into self-compassion without it feeling unnatural or difficult? You know, how is it the the small steps that you were talking about earlier? Or what's the first thing they need to do?

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Noticing that, like I am it might be I'm scared to give up this um, you know, I think of it as a whipping stick. I'm scared to give up this self-com this self-criticism because I'm afraid I'm gonna let myself off the hook. I'm scared that it will, you know, I'll do worse, that I'll be a worse parent, that I'll make more mistakes, that I'll be, you know, meaner or whatever it is. So just noticing, oh, there's a lot of fear there. Yeah. And we can bring compassion to that. Like it's hard to give up. It's hard to like let go of this self-criticism. It's hard to let go of what feels like this is how I'm staying the straight and narrow. Like that's really scary. Oh, that makes a lot of sense. And probably you learned it from a young age, right? At the person listening is they probably learned it from a young age. This is how you do better. And you know what? A lot of times our coping skills, they do kind of serve us in one way or another at different points in our life. They like are necessary. Sometimes, even as adults, like they kind of serve us over here, but then they harm us over here. So it's not that our coping skills are always, you know, harmful. Like it's good to want to try to, you know, grow and and not do things and do other things instead. Um, so yeah, that's what I would say is when when someone's thinking, like, ugh, I can't even imagine being compassionate towards myself. I'm not, I'm not deserving, or I I'm afraid that if I do that, then I will, you know, slip into um just being worse and worse and worse, and things will just go out of control, is like, okay, I hear you. That is really scary. So even just bringing compassion to it's scary for me to think about doing something different than what I've always done. So it's trying to meet people where they are.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

I just love that because I I really try to drive home, even with my own children that are raising children. I just say that you don't have to start over.

Why Self-Compassion Feels Risky

SPEAKER_00 35:35

You feel that you were you made a mistake and you're beating yourself up for that. Don't do that. And you don't have to start over and scrap everything. You pick up where you left off because you've done so much good. Look at these kids, look at them. They're happy, they're thriving, they love their mommy and daddy. So you made a mistake. You didn't do what you thought you should do with your kids. But let's just pick up from this point and move forward. Because a lot of people look at it as, oh, this is terrible. I'm just gonna have to start over. But you can't do that with children. I mean, what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Yeah, I really love that because it kind of I can relate to that, getting into that black and white thinking, right? Yeah. It's true, it's never too late. You know, even if we have adult children, we can always turn towards them in a new way and always, um, so no matter the age, and yes, the I'm a hundred percent confident that even though I haven't met all of your listeners, that there's great things about what they're doing as parents. There's great things about how you're parenting, how you're showing up with your kids. And I bet if you asked your kids, they might have a list of things that they don't care about, care so much for, but they would, I'm sure, have a long list of things that they appreciate about you as a parent. So I agree, we don't want to scrap everything because I'm sure there's uh so much good there. Yes. It's just little tweaks to the parts that you would like to look different or feel different. And that feels kind of more manageable than starting from scratch.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Right. And and we all evolve as parents, just like we do in anything that we're we care about. Of course, we're evolving. I mean, I have a book right here on my desk that my publisher is getting more and more angry with me about because I keep evolving the message. But the more I learn, the dip the different it is, the more it changes, it's just evolving into something better. And so that's how I like to look at parenting. And we talk a lot here about that moment before the reaction, before the snap, you know, before the shutdown. Would you say self-compassion is what actually makes that pause possible? I mean, being kind kindness, kind to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Yes, a hundred percent. Because I think um if we if we look inward without the self-compassion, where it's so easy to slip into the self-criticism and self-doubt, and just um, we can be so hard on ourselves. I think it's just it's embedded in our culture. So we just go there and um and so I feel like yes, the self-compassion piece makes the pausing kind of one more palatable. Like, okay, I can look at the fact that I snapped at my kid. I can look at the fact that I have this kind of you know, unhealthy or unhelpful pattern over here. I can look at it because I can know, okay, there's a good reason that that pattern exists. There is, uh, I can, I, I'm, it's happening because I care about my kids, because I want to do well as a parent. And can I be gentle with myself through this? So, yes, I think the offering ourselves and bringing compassion to whatever it is that we're looking inward and noticing will help us be able to kind of sit with it and be curious about it and grow from it rather than, like you said, we either shut off because it's too painful. It's like, who wants to just go into this place where they're, you know, feeling awful and just beating themselves up and you hearing all the other outside voices from everybody that's telling you you're doing it wrong, like all the thoughts that we can have that are so unhelpful. Or like, yeah, I'm just gonna turn all that off. Like, I can't even go there because that's too painful. Such a natural human response. So if we want to be curious, I feel like we have to bring the compassion along with the curiosity.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Well, in realizing that when when things are when you're overwhelmed or triggered, you know, it's anger, uh, shame, fear, guilt, all of those emotions are normal emotions. It doesn't mean you're a horrible person. It's just what do you do with those emotions? Like anger. Anger is is a perfect emotion I think of with child raising children. You know, and when we get angry, we're not a bad parent because we're angry, because that's a perfectly normal emotion. It's just what do we do with that anger? That's when it becomes an issue. Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

And so I I don't know. I I see a lot of these things show up, especially on my previous uh youth ministry days. I get a lot of confused children, but confused parents as well. And the whole problem I just I don't know, everything seemed to get better when the parents would finally give their child a voice and actually listen to what they're trying to say. And because no one knows your child better than you. People can advise you all day long. But it doesn't mean that that's gonna work or be the answer, the answer. You just have to find it because no one knows the child too. I I wanted to point this out to you and ask you about this. Is it true that parents are on the outside appearing to be perfect? And a lot of times children don't realize their parents are actually human and have human emotions, but they also do feel, I mean, they're so in tune to their parents that when

Kids Feel What We Hide

SPEAKER_00 41:32

parents are even trying to be not upset, not stressed, the child can still feel it. Is that is that so? Is that true?

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yes. And I think um part of it is mere neurons, right? That our children's mirror what's happening with us. And it's not what we're pretending that's happening with us, right? It's not the facade that we are putting on, even if unintentional, right? Sometimes it's it's um kind of to protect our kiddos or whatever. But yes, our kiddos can feel and are experiencing our underlying emotions too. And so it is um great for us and our kids when we can say, you know what, I am having a hard day. I am tired, I am getting frustrated, I need to step away. I need to take care of myself because I recognize I'm kind of getting harsh and snappy with you. And I think, like you're saying, it removes that um image that our parents are perfect, right? And then our kids get to see, oh, mom and dad, they sometimes struggle too. Mom and dad get frustrated. Mom and dad are human, they get tired, and when they're tired, they struggle with their emotions too. And that helps our kids not feel like they need to be perfect and always uh in a good mood and always on and always, you know, top performing. It helps them feel like, okay, well, you know, like we all have good days and bad days, and we have tough moments, and it's normal, and mom and dad have them, and it's okay. It's sort of normalizing a human experience rather than feeling like we should always be perfect, and then our kids get the message that however we're feeling on the inside, we just have to shove it away and pretend to be okay. And that's the unintended message that we're sending when we're pretending to be okay, when we're really not okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Yes, because they are watching us like hawks and learning. And and that's why these cycles of behavior are so difficult to break. You know, and that's why they say abused children become abusive parents. And we're not sure about how to break that cycle, but when you do, it it opens up a whole world for you as a person. You're not just a parent, you're a person. And guess what? Your kids are going to go. Grown and in their own lives one day.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

And I I saw this video the other day. It really hit me strongly because it's it showed a baby at a beach with her mom and dad. And it was so cute, a little cute scene. And it says, as an infant, you have three summers or two summers. And as a toddler, you have three summers. And as a young child, you have this many summers. But it wasn't many summers.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Just trying to drive home the point that you don't have them forever. Right. But and it m kind of puts things in a new light. It did for me. I'm like, gosh, my grandchildren, they're not going to be loving Grammy like they do now. I mean, they love me, but they won't come to me with their arms out. Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Yes. It'll be different. It'll look different.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Yes, yes. Um, for the parent listening right now who feels stuck in guilt or shame and feels like they've already messed up, they've already messed things up. What would you want them to hear today?

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Yeah. So

It’s Never Too Late To Repair

SPEAKER_02 45:09

first, you're not alone. I've been there. There's many parents that have been there and that are there with you. And secondly, um, it's never too late. It's never too late. It's um you can always start connecting and reconnecting with your kiddo and connecting and making new small shifts in how you show up and interact. And the small shifts are, you know, over time they they link up to be big, significant changes in that relationship. So it's you're not alone and it's never too late. And it's okay to be imperfect. Like that is a reality of being human. We're messy, we mess up, we make mistakes, and that's hard to accept. But in accepting that about ourselves, you're modeling to your kiddo, like it's okay for them to be imperfect too. And then you guys get to be imperfect together, and that's gonna bring you closer to your kiddo.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

I love that. That is perfect. Michelle, before we wrap up today, I'd love for people to stay connected to you,

Where To Find More Support

SPEAKER_00 46:20

to your work. So, where's the best place for people to find you and learn more about what you do?

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Yeah, definitely. So a compassionate heart parenting podcast, where I have more of these kind of conversations. I interview people, I share experiences, and it's all about helping parents turn inward with gentleness and compassion so that they can make those small shifts. And then also my website is compassionate heart mindful life. And um, there you can get the pause and regroup, the audit guided audio. Um, there if you get on the newsletter, which you'll get if you get the guided audio, you'll get the rain practice, where I also um do that on audio so you can listen to it and read it. So those would be the best ways to come and find me and what a tool.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

I mean, where was that 20 years ago for me? Yes. Uh we'll make sure to to put everything and make sure that it's linked in the sh in the show notes, everybody. And uh Michelle, thank you for being here. This was such a meaningful

Inside The Pause And Becoming Series

SPEAKER_00 47:31

conversation. If if this conversation spoke to you, I want to invite you to go a little deeper. Every week I share a short story on Tuesdays as PJ Hamilton, real, raw moments from my own life that has a life lesson that's connected to this episode. And then on Wednesdays and Thursdays, I walk you through how those moments connect to the patterns we talked about here on the podcast. It's all part of inside the pause, helping you not just hear it, but actually apply it to your life. Because we hear a lot of things we should do and we shouldn't do. But sometimes they're they lack the actual actions to the solutions. You know, what can we actually do with this? You can find both newsletters in the show notes and you can join me there. And one more thing, I'm so excited. Starting this May, I've released a special becoming series. It's a collection of of these conversations with all these amazing people that um are sharing the moment their lives changed. And if you ever felt like you're in the middle of becoming something new, this series is for you. You can watch the full series over my YouTube channel and just search for Pam Dwyer speaker. You'll find it there. And I'd love for you to be part of it. And for everyone listening, if something in this conversation resonated with you, it might be because you're standing in one of those moments right now. The place where something in your life is shifting, where an old pattern no longer fits, where something deeper is asking for your attention. So please listen. And if that's where you are, I want you to remember you don't have to figure everything out today. Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is pause long enough to see what's really underneath. Choose one small step forward and trust that everything you've lived has been preparing you for who you are becoming. Thanks for being here, and I'll see you next time. Thanks again, Michelle. You're awesome. Thank you, Pam.