Why Change Doesn’t Work and What Actually Does | Jo Weatherford | Becoming Series

What does it really mean to become?

In this episode of the Delay the Binge Podcast, Pam Dwyer sits down with Jo Weatherford for a powerful and deeply honest conversation about identity, healing, and the true meaning of transformation.

While most people think becoming is about changing into someone new, Jo offers a different perspective, one that shifts everything:

Becoming isn’t about becoming someone else.
 It’s about coming home to who you’ve always been.

From trauma and addiction to rebuilding a life with intention, Jo shares her journey of navigating pain, patterns, and personal growth, and what it really takes to create lasting change.

This conversation explores the emotional and neurological patterns that keep people stuck, the fear of stepping into something new, and the quiet signals our body and mind are always sending us.

It also reinforces a core truth behind Delay the Binge™:

The moment before the pattern… is where everything can change.

🔑 KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Why people stay stuck (even when they want change)
 • The brain’s role in survival vs. happiness
 • How small disruptions create new patterns
 • Why awareness is the first step to transformation
 • The difference between changing vs. returning to yourself

🔗 CONNECT WITH JO WEATHERFORD

Website: https://recoveryremix.com/

Also known as: https://joweatherford.com/

Instagram: @joweatherford

This episode is part of the Becoming Series, conversations centered around the moments that shift everything.

This is Delay the Binge™

Delay the Binge™ explores burnout, emotional patterns, Quiet Depletion, and the pause between impulse and action where real behavior change begins.

Through emotionally honest conversations and practical insight from experts in neuroscience, psychology, resilience, wellness, and human behavior, you’ll learn how to recognize patterns, reconnect with yourself, and build momentum one intentional choice at a time.

Because it’s not about willpower…it’s about what you do in the moment the urge hits.

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⚠️ Disclaimer

This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical, psychological, or professional advice.

Delay the Binge™ is a trademark of TPKK Concepts LLC
© Pam Dwyer. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Life Looks Right But Feels Wrong

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You can have a life that looks right and still feel completely disconnected. So, what if the problem isn't your life, but your connection to yourself? And what if becoming isn't about changing who you are, but finding your way back? This is the Delay the Bench Podcast. And if you're new here, this show is about understanding the patterns that keep you stuck and learning how to pause long enough to choose something different. And today's conversation is a powerful example of what that actually looks like in real life. Because what if your life looks right but feels completely wrong? Jo Weatherford is back on the show. And if you heard our first conversation, you already know she doesn't stay on the surface, y'all. Her work in addiction and recovery goes deep, helping people understand their patterns, take real ownership, and actually create lasting change. Joe, welcome back.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Thank you so much. What a great intro. I appreciate that.

Building A Life That Feels Good

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Well, can't have a great intro without having a great person on the other end. So before we get into any of this and go really deep, I'd actually love, love, love to start with where you are right now and what are your most focused, what you're most focused on in your work and life these days. You know, how the heck are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Beautiful. Yeah. Well, I'm really good. Um I am busy creating a life that looks great on paper and also feels great to be inside of. So um business-wise, I am still working very hard to get uh Chickshad treatment center reopened. That's the treatment center that I got sober at. It's aversion therapy. Um, and so I'm working with a business partner to make sure that that's available again. So um work is that um personal life. My partner and I are working on creating a a new life, a baby.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

And so um really gosh, congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Family. Um, so yeah, it's it's just a beautiful apex moment for me, you know. Um, and I'm I'm glad to be here, but I'm still in the middle. It's like the treatment center hasn't opened yet. I'm not pregnant yet. So it's like that in-between space where nothing's in it yet, and it can be kind of a a sucky space too sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

But you're on the path, right? You're on the path of of reaching it and you know what it is you want. That clarity is is so special.

unknown 3:09

Yeah.

Becoming As A Return Home

SPEAKER_00 3:10

It is. It is so much. And a lot of times, I mean, a lot of women especially don't even realize they have no idea what they really want. So one of the reasons I'm very excited to have your expertise today is because this series is really about becoming, not not in the way people usually think about it, but what it actually looks like to come back to yourself. And I think your story and your work speaks to that in a very real way. When you hear the word becoming, what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah, it's it's interesting because my mind goes to more of a butterfly going through this transformation, right? Where something is becoming its next evolution. But what I feel when I hear becoming is a coming home. So it's it's um what I imagine in my mind and what I feel in my heart are actually two very different processes. Um but the the coming home is I think a it's like the payoff of doing the transformational work. So even though they are two different processes, they all, you know, they are interconnected and intertwined into that coming into ours.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

It's like a busy highway with all these paths, right? And and we somehow end up back to where we should hopefully be. I love that. The butterfly. That's a great visual.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I think we're coming home to what we've always been as well. Like I can remember this moment, I was probably four or five years old, and it was um in front of this rose bush, and it was kind of like I was going through a lot in my life, which sounds crazy as a four or five-year-old, but a lot was changing for me. And it was the moment I kind of felt my innocence shatter, and then my ego came on board. You know how kids are usually they're just in flow and they're just free. Well, it was the moment, and I actually was conscious of it of like I'm in a new world now. Now all of a sudden, I care what people think about me and I feel like I need to perform. And it was very interesting. I felt the juxtaposition of I'm innocent and free to I need to perform and prove my worth. And so when I think about becoming as well, when I I think about that coming home, it's like a return to that innocence. It's a return to that flow. It's a return to being rather than doing. It's a freedom that we are are creating because we're re-establishing the rules.

Trauma, Addiction, And Getting Sober

SPEAKER_00 6:00

That is that that's profound. I like that a lot. You know, just in case we have listeners that are new to Joe Wetherford and maybe didn't listen to the first conversation, can you just give us a brief summary of your past life and and and how how it brought you to where you're at today? I know that's a a lot, but we I think you don't have to go over all of it. I just want to revisit it a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah, just kind of Cliff Notes version. Um, what happened when I was was four and a half was I was molested. And that is was definitely a very um pivotal moment in my life and established a lot of the way I thought about myself, my sexuality, um, my worth, love. That kind of carried into my adolescent years, which I then became very promiscuous, drinking heavily at age 12. I mean, I was a full-blown alcoholic by 12. Um, but I was always a high performer. And so I could look really good on paper and I could convince the world I was great. I played junior Olympic softball. Um, you know, I graduated when I was 16. So academically, sports, I always really excelled. Um, I went to school for journalism. I wanted a career in in broadcasting, but kind of got sucked into the modeling world and went that path instead. And found myself in rehab at age 24 and just very broken um, eating disorder, horrific alcoholism. I got sober for a little while and was able to um pivot my life and went to graduate school to become a therapist, but I'm still dealing with a lot of my own demons and talk about um just an unbelievable experience. Here I am, like as this addiction expert, but I'm also battling my own. And I'm very good at what I do, but also the biggest hypocrite on the planet. And it's it was just such a oh, it was crazy because I, when I decided to go down this path, I was sober, right? And I I think a lot of people are, and they're like, oh, I'm gonna help people. And your demons come back, and then you're, you know, you've already committed and you're working with people. It was it was unbelievable. And so I was like, I need to do something now that's gonna work. And that's when I went to Shik Shadal treatment. 10 days later, I walked out of there and I never wanted to drink again. And that was 14 years ago. And so I've worked in some capacity in the addiction field ever since. I worked at the University of Nevada, Reno. I taught counseling courses there for 12 years. I helped create a lot of the educational drug prevention programming there. Um, and I work with clients one-on-one now. So um I moved to Mexico, sold everything during COVID. I've had like such a wild, I feel like I've lived, you know, lives. Yeah, but here we are, and I I'm really excited. Yeah, now this new path of like I I pray that I will be a mother, like a journey I never thought I'd be on.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

It's truly my favoritest thing in life so far. Well, other than being a grand a granny. That makes that may trump the mom. I don't know. But you know, first before I go any further, I just want to commend you because not everyone can take horrific or traumatic events in their life and use it to do good things. And and you just you constantly want to help people and uh my whole message of my book or my first memoir was um your past doesn't define you, it prepares you. And it's all about using pain for purpose, you know, struggles are as stepping stones. Because really, if you can't make it worth happening, you know, that's that's very difficult to deal with. But man, you have just done phenomenal work using what happened to you.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Wow, thank you. I mean, I I think there's something to be said about people when they haven't had an easy life. It's like when things are just going right and you're able to create amazing things. That's so powerful. I admire it so much and it's inspiring. But it's the people when things are not going right that keep going and they find a way. That to me is just unbelievable. And I'm sorry, there is a woodpecker.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

I'm I live, it's that woodpecker. I thought maybe it was the UPS man.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

No, I'm sober on a 26-acre vineyard in the middle of nowhere, but we have this farmhouse, this wooden farmhouse. And so are lots of fun little animals. And so we're just gonna roll with it and I'm gonna go into a quieter room.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Speaking of adversity, can be part of our of our chat. I don't mind. I love woodpeckers, they aren't unlean though at times because they always are present when you don't want them to be.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Um, so yeah, the the people that can can persevere through adversity, I just love it. I was listening to a podcast earlier today, and somebody said the Kobe Bryant quote where he's like, he had a horrible game, and he's talking about how it feels when you just can't click into that next level, nothing's working, it's just not going right. He goes, but what I know about me is I will always find a way. And he said, if I ever get into a fight with a bear, pray for the bear. And it's like, God, I love that. I love that grit and the tenacity, which is like, no matter what comes at me, I will come out on top. And I'm just, I love hearing that message. And so I want to share it. And I I love being able to say that it does not matter what happened to you. You can absolutely create whatever life you choose.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

And lean into it. You know, I you know, that's the second time I've heard that that phrase about the bear. So funny, maybe there's some power telling me, get ready for the bear, Pam, or something. I don't know. It's the second interview. I this we've talked about this bear quote. But I think that's very powerful and it's very true. I mean, everyone thinks, oh, you're so resilient. Oh, how did you ever come back from that? But it's in all of us. You just have to figure out how to tap into it, you know? So when you think about your life back then when all this was happening, what what stands out to you now that maybe didn't stand out at the time?

SPEAKER_01 13:07

What's interesting about being caught in my addiction was I wasn't resilient. Um, I didn't have hope or faith. I didn't know if I'd ever get out of it. I was just like a part of me knew I just need to stay alive. Like if I can just keep myself alive, maybe a miracle will happen. Um, and that was the level of consciousness and trust in everything I was operating at. And I think that that's a really powerful message because when we talk about resilience and grit, a lot of time people are are so scared because they're like, well, I don't believe in myself. Like my self-trust is shattered. Nobody has hurt me more than I've hurt me, right? So how am I supposed to believe in myself and develop this grit? And I just want to say, sometimes you don't need to. Like God is gonna do for you what you can't do for yourself. Whatever, you know, it it doesn't need to be a man with a gavel on a on a cross, like your version of God. This, this love, this energy that is beyond all of us. It's like sometimes that will step in and you don't need hope or faith. So even if you're in like the absolute depths of hell, like it can still happen for you. And so just keep yourself alive because healing is always possible, you know, as long as we're still here.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Thank you so much for saying that. I am very spiritual as well. And even when I was going through the worst time in my life, I believed in God, but I just was very angry at him. But, you know, a lot of people are not, a lot of people aren't spiritual, you know, but they need to understand that the brain, just from the neuroscience of everything, the brain uh is all about patterns and it's all about survival. It your lower brain, that's all it thinks about, is helping you survive. And so when a lot of people say, I don't know how I got through that, but I did, well, it's because the body is an amazing thing and so is the brain is incredible and it will help you cope and survive, but sometimes those behaviors, you know, can lead you down the wrong path. And, you know, that's what we study here on Delay the Binge. You know, that's what the brain's doing. It's trying to get to appease you temporarily, you know. But it's it's a wonderful thing to look into. And I I'm just obsessed with the neuroscience of things lately. But spiritually, you know, that's that's that's what I'm all about too.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

I love what you said that yeah, because when you think about the brain, that's that's why mindset is so critical, because the brain is wired for survival, not for happiness. So when we need it to be wired for survival, it's gonna kick in and do everything that it can to support us, which is amazing. We don't even have to try. It's like you don't need to tell your heart to beat, you don't need to ask your eyes to blink. Like nature is is just doing its thing all the time, and it's amazing. And we need to be cautious of it, like you said, because we tap into that reptilian just survival instinct all the time, and that does get us in trouble. And so that's where for me, it's like we need to be diligent. What are my thoughts? What is my intention? The why behind it all, you know, so that our life doesn't become mechanical on autopilot for survival, take, take, take. That's, you know, a very different mentality than really we are so fortunate. I know a lot of people are going through hard things, and I'm not discounting war or domestic violence or a lot of the atrocities that are happening all the time. But the reality is for most of us, like in this moment we are safe. In this moment, there is no threat. In this moment, we are okay. And we need to give our time, you know, and and energy to that relaxation and gratitude of the peace, which actually we are afforded, you know, way more than any other time in history. And so it's like it's that balancing act, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Oh, the dreaded balance. It's always elusive for me. I always try to find it. But the, you know, clear the brain will the frontal part of the brain is your thinking part, but it goes offline when the lower brain's in charge. And like you said, that's when we get in trouble. But the pause or taking a moment to reflect, to bring clarity brings the front part of your brain back online so that you can actually assess and think, okay, what am I really thinking right now? Why am I doing this thing? You know, because we know what we should and shouldn't do, but we still do it. Like, what is that?

SPEAKER_01 17:55

It's back to basics so often. Even yesterday, I had an experience where I felt myself get hijacked, you know, my cortisol, my adrenaline dumped, your blood is in your fingertips, you're ready to run, you're not present, you're out of your body, your nervous system is completely offline. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna, what's five things that I can see? What's four things that I can feel? What's three things that I can smell? I mean, it's so like 101 basic, but sometimes we just got to get back to that. And I'm doing this little exercise, and then I almost started, yeah. I was like laughing at myself and like, seriously, this is where we're still at. But then it worked. And then I was like, oh, thank God. Okay, maybe these dumb little exercises, you know, actually really help and aren't dumb at all.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Yes, I'm constantly using my whole approach, my my whole framework because especially my grown kids, they're like, mom, are you going to delay the binge today because you need to take a pause?

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Well, and that's really so much of the work is just being able to stop and not do anything for a minute and get present. But it's it's so incredibly difficult. And then we have those moments sometimes where it's like you have that moment of interruption where you could do it differently. And it's like, nah, I just don't want to really throw a temper tantrum right now, you know. But at least you there's some awareness, which I think is really just the main goal.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Well, and people do a lot of things. Like I I spoke with someone the other day on the show, and she said she goes out to, she lives in the woods, you know, in a beautiful cabin. But she said, I just go out into the woods and I lay on the grass with my arms spread out and just look up at the sky. She has sometimes it takes five minutes, sometimes just a few seconds, but I just ground. They talk a lot about grounding, and and it's so funny because the other day there was a man in a business suit walking down our road here in the in the neighborhood barefoot. He was just walking.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Well, he must be stressed.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Let the earth take it. Yeah. Ground and there's so much wisdom to all of it. You know, it's we do have really good instruction manuals. It's just seeking out people like you who've consolidated the information and put it together and then can be like, here you go, do this. And it does truly make all the difference.

When Symptoms Point To Misalignment

SPEAKER_00 20:36

And a lot of people don't want to apply a lot of the things that we recommend. And I just like, I dare you, go ahead and try it and tell me that it doesn't work, you know, because you know, it seems like an extra thing to add to your plate. But it really just takes, you know, 30, 60 seconds to really make an impact. So I I want to back up a little about was there ever a moment or uh, you know, like a build-up where something in you, you know, in your from your story, was there something in you where you knew things had to change? I mean, did what how did you because that's what people ask me all the time. How did you know anything different? How did you know something needed to happen? I mean, that's easy enough for me, you know, to answer, but I was just wondering, what what do you answer when people ask you, how did you know you needed to get help?

SPEAKER_01 21:31

You know, I'm kind of a bad example of this because mine was so advanced and so awful. There was no denial. Like my addiction was all day, every day. I was so sick. Um, there was no questioning it once it got to that point. Like I was able to maintain, like I said, playing sports or doing school, and I would go out on the weekends and get too drunk and maybe embarrass myself. But then I could clean it up during the week. I mean, I did that for a long time. But when my addiction really took hold of me, I was not in denial. I wasn't kidding myself. I was suicidal. I was sick physically all the time. Um, I don't know how I only got one DUI. It is like a miracle that I didn't hurt myself or somebody else. Um, so there was no questioning. I, my life was completely unmanageable. So um even the times that I was able to go to work or anything, I knew how sick I was. And I I knew that this was much bigger than me. So um, when did that flip? I'm not, I'm not certain, but it went from this is a bad problem to oh God, I'm gonna die. Like that was the only spectrum that I felt. It's like what, you know, an average person, you would notice your relationships are suffering, whether that's with your kid, with your partner, with your boss, you know, you would have a health scare. There might be something legally that happens. Um, but depression, like all of these things that are horrific things, right? That we want to just hurry up and medicate and and get away, these are symptoms telling us we're out of alignment. Like your depression is there to serve you. It is there to to show you that something needs healing, it needs attention, something is not working. Again, nature is miraculous. And so, you know, it's like gut issues, insomnia, um, depression, any of these types of things, and massive anxiety. It's like, hey, we need to bring you back into center. And so a lot of the things that we discount, or we just want to medicate and we want to just get on with our life, it doesn't work that way. I understand it. It's like this takes a lot of time. I don't want to face this, you know, I'm scared of what will happen. There's a million things that can come up self-sabotaging. I'm afraid I can't do it. You know, it's terrifying a lot of times to acknowledge and admit this stuff where that's where I'm almost lucky is I didn't have a choice. Mine was so bad, I couldn't pretend.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Well, and listen, you know, you're like we talked about before, your body is going to try and communicate with you, not just with survival, but it's trying to tell you there's an issue here. And if you continue to ignore it, that's when you go to the unhealthy urges or behaviors. You know, you're seeking comfort, you're seeking a temporary resolve. And, you know, over time, if you keep ignoring it, it will affect your health, you know, where it does become life-threatening eventually, you know, if you continue to ignore what your body is trying to tell you and your brain. And it's so sad to me when I talk to, especially women that are just so successful, they have they have a beautiful family, a great career, they're doing all the things right that they've been told is right, but they're empty inside. They have no joy, they have no feeling, they just don't feel anything. They're like, you can tell me to listen to my body, but there's nothing there. But that took a long time to develop. That took a long time of ignoring the signals and the signs. W what I find too, and I was gonna ask you this, is when you do begin to heal, I mean, I felt this. I'm like, who am I without that version of my life? Who I I was a little fearful, I guess, fear to rediscover who I really was all along, but I didn't believe it, right? I still was over here in this frame of mind, this mindset. Did you struggle with that at all with your identity?

SPEAKER_01 25:53

You know what's interesting with me, um, I think some of it stems from potentially uh negative, I'm gonna say negative coping mechanisms that I have, which is like disassociation, right? Or I was a chameleon and I would be whoever I needed to be to please the person in front of me. So I'm kind of wired to reinvent myself, is my point. So these things that were probably negative at a at a lot of different points in my life, negative defense mechanisms, actually served me when I got sober because I'm good at it. I'm accustomed to it. Um, I was wired for it. So when it was like, oh my God, I was this crazy party girl and now I'm gonna become somebody else, I actually thought it was sort of fun. Like I get to reinvent myself. And I I just really leaned into it. It was exciting for me. Um, and I've done that so many times during my life. I went from a successful business owner and university professor to sell everything, and I'm just gonna go be retired on the beach and I'll become this beach bomb. And then I'll like I like doing that. Oh, nope, never mind. I'm gonna move to Northern California and now I'm gonna have a family, and my partner is the founder of a huge startup, and like now I'll be this. So I enjoy it and I don't have to try to enjoy it. I just naturally do, but I would really encourage people if they're about to make a big change and they're feeling that fear of releasing that old identity is start playing with it. What if it's possible that this is actually super fun? What if it's possible that this goes off better than I could have ever imagined? It's totally possible that that life really didn't serve me anymore. And oh my God, what's gonna come is gonna be so great. Like, see if there is any part of you that can be actually inspired by it instead of terrified by it.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

I like that a lot because there are people that are afraid of change or just don't like it. They feel safe where they're at, and yet they're still joyless, you know, empty inside, and they don't know why. And if they're not willing to to change, you know, you've probably worked with a lot of people in this space for years. What do you think most people do you think it's fear that they they they misunderstand about change instead of looking at it from your perspective of joy and exciting? You know, have you have you run into a lot of people that are fearful of the change?

Small Disruptions That Create Change

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Yes. And I, you know, and I want to be clear too, I have fear. I just move anyway. I'm able to override it. I'm able to recognize it, and then I'm able to tap into what's also available, which is excitement. It's like remember that the brain doesn't really know the difference between nervous or excited. So if you can just keep tweaking the story a little bit and just slowly, you don't want to go from I'm terrified to this is gonna be amazing because your nervous system's never gonna stay regulated through that. But if you can just tweak it a little bit at a time, you know, and just incrementally turn up that dial to like, whoa, what's possible? That's really great. But we are our organisms that resist change. You know, all organisms crave homeostasis, right? Which is we'll stay where we're comfortable, we'll stay where we know how to survive, even if it's dysfunctional. And yes, we get complacent in our life. And even though we know it's not working, you know, especially as women, we may have stories of, yeah, but you don't leave or you need to think about everybody else before you. So it can be that. Um, it can be just absolute terror of what's next. It can be lack of resources. So why we don't change, there's a million reasons. Sometimes there's a payoff to playing small too. Like, you know what I mean? Um, if you have some amazing business idea, yeah, there's risk, there's fear, like putting yourself out there, going all in on a dream. That's terrifying. And so there's a payoff to just being like, oh, I'll just stay where I am right here. So everybody's different, but it's so common. And sometimes we need to stay in that space a little bit longer as well. I mean, I I you'll listen to these motivational speakers and they're like, go all in, take the leap, you know, doesn't matter if there's no net. And I'm like, that's insane, you know, like you should always have a plan B and make sure there's a net. And um I I believe that sometimes, you know, we need to remember that inaction is still an action. And we're affirming to our unconscious, you know, a lot when we don't move. So I'm not saying stay there forever, but I do think that there's medicine in sitting in the unknown as well. Like we don't need to to act so aggressively um all the time. Sometimes that serves us, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes we need to sit in the discomfort a little bit longer to actually make the change. And sometimes the change for me, what I've seen with myself and clients is like this is the timeline, right? And they're they're just not there yet. And so when it seems like, oh, they're not making a change and they're just sitting in it, they're actually just in the process before the change happens. So nothing is wasted. It's just all out needed to be there until this thing switched on inside of them. And so, you know, it's it's also like, is somebody just lazy and afraid and not moving, or is it just not divine timing yet?

SPEAKER_00 31:34

You know, it falls into the world of where if you if people are waiting for motivation to do something, they're never going to do it. You know, my feeling on motivation is it it's like you said, you you were fearful, but you did it anyway. So if you if you go and try do the action, the motivation comes, you know, after the action. A lot of people think motivation has to happen before the action. But I I believe strongly, I mean, that's how I don't like working out. I don't like, I don't like any form of exercise. It is the worst. I just I really have to make myself do it. And there are things that I do in order to accomplish that. But once I work out, man, I'm so motivated. I can't wait to go tomorrow. But tomorrow comes and, you know, I'm struggling again with motivation. But I do feel drip more driven and motivated after I work out.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Well, and that's it, it's discipline and motivation. We can't just wait to feel like the thing or we're never gonna make anything happen, which is so brilliant what you're saying. I mean, it's it's like that's where practice is like get up and make your bed or journal every morning. You know, little things that we maybe don't want to do that we do, you are training the muscle of overriding the I don't want to. And we need to be able to do that because so much of any change is just doing the thing, even though you don't feel like it. And energy begets more energy, and you need to stay in motion in order to feel motivated, you know? So you may not be ready to leave the marriage, you may not be ready to check yourself into treatment yet, or this big jump off the cliff moment. But every single day you should absolutely be doing things that bring you closer into who you are becoming. You have to disrupt patterns. If your life is stuck and stagnant and it's not working, little tweaks, little disruptions in behaviors and the way you respond or get up and eat something different today, or take a different road to work, like you have to start creating the availability of new pathways.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Yes. And you know what comes to my mind? It's so strange that this popped in my head. But when I was like almost 300 pounds, I loved, I drank Dr. Pepper like water. I mean, I would drink on it all day long. And I loved it. But I did and so someone said, Why don't you drink the diet soda? You know, move it from real Dr. Pepper to a diet Dr. Pepper. And I said, I just hate the way it tastes. And this one girl, I'll never forget this, she says, you know what I did, Pam, is I just slowly over time, she said, I I added to a full, you know, a half glass of the real Dr. Pepper and about this much diet soda. And then every few days she would increase the diet soda so that, you know, eventually there was no more real Dr. Pepper left, you know, and she had a adjusted to the new taste over in sl small steps. It's just small intentional steps, and whatever it is we're trying to do, you don't have to do it all in one day. It took you a while to get there.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Fake it till you make it, which I I actually really like. And there's a lot of people that will push back on that. But I I love that. It's like imagine who you are becoming. How does she think? How does she feed herself? You know, who does she hang out with? What does she do tonight? You know, and start really tapping into who you are becoming early on, and then make those small little changes along the way. Because, you know, it it's like death by a thousand cuts, right? Like still gonna bleed out. It's a bad analogy, but it's it's you know, like when you make these tiny little because you're building the energy of I'm someone who shows up for myself, even if it seems in insignificant ways, it all matters. Huge.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

I think when I first started working on this framework of delay the binge, I'll I'll never forget it's like ever I thought when I was trying the coaching, right? I thought everybody's life, they have such a unique life and their issues and their struggles are all so different. How am I going to apply one framework to all these different scenarios, you know? And I really struggled with that for a while. And, you know, I kept asking experts like you, you know, do you see common patterns in people, even when their stories look completely different? And how do you handle that? But you have to step outside of those, those things and and keep the framework steady and apply it in small ways to their unique situation. But I was just wondering if you saw that a lot too in in your line of work.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

I mean, there is there is a bunch of basic things that just need to happen, and then you can tweak accordingly. So I mean, that's like the fact that you put together and consolidated all these things that we know will help you. And here's an instruction manual and a step-by-step that everyone can follow. It's like, by all means, do that, and these things will help. And then it's like encouraging people to take these practices and tweak them and morph them into what best serves them, you know. Like, I think there's something to be said though, for saying, hey, do this exactly. Cause especially when we're early in sobriety or whatever change we're gonna make, we don't have the capacity to make good decisions or the energy or the wherewithal or the knowledge to know how to tweak things ourselves yet. So it's so important that we just take the instruction, we stay humble, and we do what somebody has laid out before us. But then the flexibility is what comes in. And it's great when you get to take these different ideologies or practices or things and then be like, what serves me best? What can I cut back on? And then you become more of the authority and the parent, you know, in the relationship and making, but God, to have somebody take the guesswork out, especially early in sobriety, is so important because it's like, oh my God, if I would have been left to my own, you know, devices early on, that would not have been good. That's what got me there.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Well, and it's a tool, right? That that's been my my thing lately is all these tools that people are using for whatever the issue is, you know. Um, it could be therapy, it could be uh bariatric surgery, it could be the GLP ones or a pill to help you get your mind off food, whatever the tool is, people are just they expect the tool to do the work. The tool is consistently the same, but your life is different and unique. And so you have to learn how to bypass the tool so that you don't have to have it forever. You know, but I think a lot of people think the tool is forever and it's going to do all the work.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Well, and sometimes we think, oh, I just need to stop drinking or I just need to lose weight. And then what you find is you do those things and you're still unhappy, you know, you're still unfulfilled. There's like much deeper layers to the work. So it's like, sure, you can take a shot and lose the weight, great. But have you really healed spiritual, emotional, you know, soul within you that needs attention beyond just shutting weight, you know? So it's really important. I think too, these tools are great, but it's like there's so much deeper inner work. And we hear it all the time with alcoholism, right? The dry drunk, the person that just stops drinking, but is still an asshole, you know, and is still doing all the same behaviors, but you're just sober doing it. It's that's what we don't want.

Chipping Away What Is Not You

SPEAKER_00 39:39

I'm almost done with my next book. It is called Delay the Binge, but my publisher keeps getting upset with me because I keep adding to like I like it last week. I added a chapter and it's called Tools Are the Pause. The tool is the pause. That's all it is. So I mean, it just it's ever growing, it's evolving constantly as I learn from everyone that I connect with. I keep learning more and more, and pretty soon it's gonna be a book this big and I'll never publish it. Just keeps growing. Well, yeah, and I'm excited about it. It's just, you know, there's so much I learn and want to share. And well, let's let's go, let's get back on becoming before we close. I just I just really wanted your take and your view and your feeling on it because I mean, do you think becoming is about changing or just remembering who you are?

SPEAKER_01 40:37

I love this story of the statue of David. When that was created, nobody had ever seen anything like that. I mean, it was like unbelievable. And so the story goes when he, the sculptor was interviewed and they said, Oh my god, how did you create something so magnificent? This is so beautiful. He said it was easy. I just chipped away the parts that aren't angel. And so, from my perspective, it's more about it's not becoming something else because we are all born innately lovable and beautiful and exactly as we are meant to be, but we take on all this crap that doesn't belong there. So it's more about chipping away the parts that aren't angel and revealing that which is so precious and whole and complete.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

That is amazing. I love that. I always tell people, you know, because everyone's had a different definition or a different meaning for what what becoming is for them or what it has been for them. Um it's it's an ev it's ever evolving. We are always evolving, but we're never a completely different person. For me, becoming is uh most apparent when I'm helping others, right? We are designed, we're built for connection. And I think that people have to some people have to remind themselves about kindness and about doing for others in a selfless way. But the more I try to help anyone, whether it's one person or a hundred, you know, the better I feel about who I am, or I'm even finding myself through that action. Do you think something shifts when people stop focusing on themselves and start helping others?

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Yeah, that ability to pay it forward and to connect and to guide, um, there's no greater sense of purpose, which I do think we are so deeply seeking in our life. You know, I I love the book Man's Search for Meaning. And for anyone that hasn't read it, you know, this this man is in an internment camp during the Holocaust and he's watching everyone around him die and suffer and be, you know, withheld food. It's like the worst atrocities you could ever imagine, of course. And what he noticed was there's two groups of people, those that wanted to help and serve others and would give somebody else their last piece of bread because that person was going to die. They were happy, even in the most atrocious circumstances, because they were in love with themselves and their fellow man. They're their hearts were open. They had meaning, they had purpose. It was like we're in this together. And then there were the people that were like, I'll kill you for my last piece of bread, you know? And they were just all about survival and they were all about, you know, like, I'm just gonna get one more moment. And and they were miserable and they were awful. It was terrible, right? Um, and so it's this idea that yes, connection, meaning purpose. You know, our hearts being open. Create a life that you can keep your heart open in. Like that's really to me like the point of it all, you know? And if you build this successful million dollar a year business, but you're stressed all the time, your heart is closed, you have enough time for other people. Is that really success? You know? So it's it's being very mindful of what it is that we want and tailoring our life to where we can stay open-hearted and give back and connect. And that really is a beautiful, meaningful life.

Listening For The Whisper

SPEAKER_00 44:35

That is so beautiful. I couldn't have said it any better. You said it perfectly. So that's exactly what I was asking for. If someone is listening right now and they feel um that quiet sense of, you know, something's off. I don't know why I don't feel anything or I'm numbing out or any of that, what what would you want them to hear?

SPEAKER_01 45:00

You know, it's it's really their own inner voice, which is taking the time to get still and hands on your heart, your belly, you know, um, really connect to your inner world. And it's like if you are feeling something you don't want to feel or you are not feeling, because a lot of times apathy is the worst, you know, it is the absence of feeling, which is horrific when we are numb to our life. It's like, get still and drop in. And what would you have me know? You know, what would you have me know? How is this showing up for me? Like, how is this here to serve me? This numb or this pain or this anxiety, you know, like every emotional experience has a message, but we have to get quiet and we have to listen. And it may not come right away, and that's okay. Again, it's baby steps, it's the process of like, hey, I'm not abandoning you. I'm here and I'm listening. And start creating a relationship with yourself of like, I want to get to know you. Instead of we talk about these symptoms a lot of times, like my depression, like it's outside of me, or my IBS, it's happening to somebody else. It's like, no, we need to be in deep relation with ourselves and what's what's happening. And it's like, hey, I want to get to know you. How are you here to serve me? That is where I would start. And again, you may not hear it initially, and that's okay. Come back. It's an act of a ritual of practice, of dropping in, and I'm right here and I'm listening. And just keep showing up for yourself. And then that whisper will come, and then that knowing will come, and you will get direction.

Where To Find Jo And Share

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Yes, thank you so much for that. I think that the listeners will really love that. It is, it is, it is good to be reminded of how we can actually start listening to ourselves, to our own views, our own opinions, our own thoughts. You know, like when we're laying down in bed to go to sleep at night. That's who you are. Yeah, when you're alone. So let's remind the listeners how to find you and your amazing work. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Um, I'm really active on social media, so at JoeWeatherford. Um, and then my website is recovery remakes.com.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Thank you so much for your time. You know, there's um there's a difference between trying to become someone else and learn how to come back to yourself. And what Jo shares, what she shared with us today, is what is what that's what it looks like. It's not perfect, it's not polished, but it's real. And if this conversation meant something to you, share it with someone who needs it. We'll see you in the next becoming episode. Thanks for being here.